Have you ever grappled with the insecurity of not feeling 'enough' as a coach or healer because you don’t have a fancy degree or certification? Or perhaps you have the titles and gold stars racked up but still feel like an imposter. Well, you're not alone. This episode features Jessica Benstock, a Trauma Resolution Teacher who helps us dissect this common yet nuanced struggle in the coaching field. Join us as we grapple with the potential risks of systemizing living, traditional wisdom and how it may lead to a loss of depth and disconnection from our intuition.
We untangle the intricacies of how our past experiences shape our emotional triggers and how that affects our ability to hold space. We explore how to navigate the foreign territories of receiving and accepting peace and happiness in personal growth, and the significance of nurturing our values and intentions.
Jessica shares her insights on the importance of intention and fulfillment, and how finding joy in unconventional choices can lead to a more satisfying and fulfilling life. Trust us, you don't want to miss this transformative journey of unpacking insecurities, personal growth, and reconnecting with our true values.
Resources:
Jessica Benstock has 14 years experience training practitioners in multiple modalities of somatic trauma healing, subconscious reprogramming, and transformational work. She pulls from a breadth and depth of training from indigenous ritual study, to western psychology, to esoteric mystery traditions. Her service is to humanity through working with Leaders & practitioners who seek to serve the higher purpose of awakening.
Connect with Jessica:
Kat HoSoo Lee is a trauma-informed Spiritual Business Mentor and host of The Rooted Business Podcast. She uses the tools of somatic and emotional alchemy to guide soulful entrepreneurs to approach their business as a spiritual practice. This allows them to cultivate businesses that are rooted in conscious values, ethical marketing and purposeful service.
Connect with Kat:
This podcast is made possible with sound production by Andre Lagace.
Have you ever grappled with the insecurity of not feeling 'enough' as a coach or healer because you don’t have a fancy degree or certification? Or perhaps you have the titles and gold stars racked up but still feel like an imposter. Well, you're not alone. This episode features Jessica Benstock, a Trauma Resolution Teacher who helps us dissect this common yet nuanced struggle in the coaching field. Join us as we grapple with the potential risks of systemizing living, traditional wisdom and how it may lead to a loss of depth and disconnection from our intuition.
We untangle the intricacies of how our past experiences shape our emotional triggers and how that affects our ability to hold space. We explore how to navigate the foreign territories of receiving and accepting peace and happiness in personal growth, and the significance of nurturing our values and intentions.
Jessica shares her insights on the importance of intention and fulfillment, and how finding joy in unconventional choices can lead to a more satisfying and fulfilling life. Trust us, you don't want to miss this transformative journey of unpacking insecurities, personal growth, and reconnecting with our true values.
Resources:
Jessica Benstock has 14 years experience training practitioners in multiple modalities of somatic trauma healing, subconscious reprogramming, and transformational work. She pulls from a breadth and depth of training from indigenous ritual study, to western psychology, to esoteric mystery traditions. Her service is to humanity through working with Leaders & practitioners who seek to serve the higher purpose of awakening.
Connect with Jessica:
Kat HoSoo Lee is a trauma-informed Spiritual Business Mentor and host of The Rooted Business Podcast. She uses the tools of somatic and emotional alchemy to guide soulful entrepreneurs to approach their business as a spiritual practice. This allows them to cultivate businesses that are rooted in conscious values, ethical marketing and purposeful service.
Connect with Kat:
This podcast is made possible with sound production by Andre Lagace.
Welcome to the Reuded Business Podcast. Today I've got the lovely Jessica Benstock. You've been on my podcast several times now, so, folks, if you're listening and you're vibing with Jess, just go search in the archives, because I honestly think that our conversation about narcissism is like one of my very favorite episodes that I've ever recorded.
Speaker 2:Did you lose me? I did, but you're back now, okay, did you hear?
Speaker 1:any of that.
Speaker 2:I heard archives.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll just start all over again. Sorry folks, I'm on Instagram Live, so I've got the lovely Jessica Benstock here and she's been on the podcast several times now and so if you are vibing with her, go check out and just do a search within this podcast and go look for her. I honestly feel like our conversation about narcissism is like one of my favorite podcast episodes that I've ever recorded. That was so much fun and I love taking these things that we just assumed to be true and flipping them on its head, and I feel like we did that in the narcissist's and conversation, and I'm really looking forward to this one because I think that we're going to do the same thing here.
Speaker 1:So, jess, I've asked you on the chat specifically about holding space. You are an amazing teacher and mentor for practitioners and I think that there's this silent, perhaps unspoken, but deeply rooted insecurity or fear with a lot of coaches that because I don't have a credential, because I don't have this fancy piece of paper, because I haven't studied with so-and-so like, do I even deserve to be holding space? And so that's the concept. I think that it's going to be fun to unpack with you. So thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm very excited to dive into it and I just love the angles that you and I can dive into, because we're both a little bit rebellious with big, big hearts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean to me like that speaks so much to safety, and the safety that I feel with you specifically is like we can go months and months and months not talking and just drive straight in and be like okay, like leave the fluffy superficial bullshit out and let's just get straight into the juice of it. So I really appreciate that you're open and not judgmental and a lot of times when we're recording a podcast, I know that for me I'm actively massaging a concept before it even feels like fully real. And yeah, I just love doing that with you. Yeah same.
Speaker 2:I love the phrasing massaging a concept, because it is like that. It's like the surface places where there's the crunchy bits that we kind of notice as a symptom, and then what's actually going on more and a more deep level. Yeah, thanks for the message.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to live in Sweet so let's first start with this like, like, just so that people can sort of like recognize themselves in this conversation. I know that I've struggled with this as I was like transitioning from being an acupuncturist and being highly credentialed, having all the different papers, into coaching and feeling like you know, I feel like I'm really good at this coaching thing but I don't have like a physical sort of like demarcation that I'm quote unquote allowed to coach and so I think if we can sort of like unpack, like where those thought patterns come from I know where they came from in my story, but like I'm sure you see this so much in your clients and like maybe sort of fleshing out the like sticky edges first, like, as you're saying, the crunchy bits of the surface layers, of the mess on them, will sort of like get into the deeper layers of the fashion.
Speaker 2:Totally, totally. Yeah, I mean it's. I'm curious from your end how you notice it. I definitely think that we come from a culture that trains us to have a name tag and a business card and a title, and I think that there's a lot of like externalization of our value on titles. I think that's just kind of it's not just the Western world, but it is Westernized worlds that do it.
Speaker 2:You know, you should be an engineer or you should be a doctor, you should be a lawyer yeah, because it makes money. But also like, how does it make the family look? How does it make you look? How are you going to be accepted in social? You know society. How are people going to talk about you? Are they going to give you a weird eyebrow? Are they going to be like oh wow, you do that, you know, and there's definitely a lot of that programming culturally. That's very tied up, I think. And who am I to be doing this? Do I have a certification, do I not? And then specific, I mean I'm very curious to hear about your experience because, like acupuncture, I know if you guys don't know that world, like the level of tests you have to do and then if you're in, like different states, the level of more testing that you have to do, and if you want to specialize, there's even more tests.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's thick and it's I mean, it's a huge body of work. So it makes sense that you know, you want to know what you're doing. But it's like a sneaky thing in the background that starts to maybe inform how we see ourselves once we get the piece of paper and we can have the plaque on the wall.
Speaker 1:And so and the letters behind your name, like all those sort of like demarcations of what westernized culture considers to be valuable and worthy. And you know, I think acupuncture is specifically a really interesting sort of I want to call it an industry is because it came from a really traditional, really sort of like grassroots. You learn from the healer in your village and like, way back in the day, acupuncturists these called them barefoot doctors like didn't even like receive payment for their services. It's like everyone in the village knew to take care of the barefoot doctor and would regularly send food, would help them out and like would support that person so that when someone in your family got sick, it was just you stepped in right, and so it wasn't this transactional business type relationship before Mel, essentially, and what I've, I want to be really careful because I think that you know acupuncture, the acupuncture world, is like a very, very important part of our medical system now, and so I don't want to like trash it, but I also see where you know sort of the magic of the medicine has been stripped away and you know the testing that you just spoke of is really just.
Speaker 1:Can you memorize this list of points? Can you memorize this list of herbs and like someone has a headache and which of these cookbook recipes would you use to treat that headache? And to me, that is not at all what acupuncture came from. A lot of it came from Dallas philosophy and looking at nature and looking at the balance and imbalance within nature and being like, oh hey, like the human body is not all that different and you know, sort of choosing points in a more like intuitive and esoteric way and so, like, the credentialing system within acupuncture specifically, I feel like has has taken away a lot of that magic. That and and that's one of the fears that I have for the coaching industry is like yes, I'm a little bit of a rebel, yes, I like to think outside the box, but I've seen in the world of acupuncture where that has gone not as intended perhaps, and we've sort of systemized things to the point that we've lost the magic of the thing.
Speaker 2:It's such an interesting way to say that it's it. I mean, sorry, were you gonna? No, go ahead, take it.
Speaker 2:It's something about when we systemize things that originally came from a living principle and it's not to say that like something like acupuncture, which I think is a great example, is, like you said, like it comes from Daoist principles. It comes from the living essence of life, of creation and the spirit within that and the intuition within that and thousands of years of people studying this like living wisdom and there are systems within it. But those systems are built from what's been observed in nature and what's been observed through those forces, so that they're honoring the principles versus, I think, systemizing things the way the Western world does, under the guise of like, let's make sure that we're really safe, or let's make sure that this thing you know and who knows, I'm sure there's other. You know, when you get lots of money and monopolies and we don't have to go into that, but like, there's a lot of forces that come in, especially to the medical system, with where teaching and curriculum goes. But when you systemize something that is inherently built from the living principles, the living wisdom of these forces, you don't learn from the systems and then grow something within what you've learned from listening as a student, which all the wisdom traditions, all the healing traditions, all the indigenous healing traditions, like every kind of tradition that holds these grains and powerful experiences of truth have.
Speaker 2:The system is informed by that living flow, versus the system being kind of put on something to fit it into a box. And I think that Westernized I mean, oh geez, the Westernized world does that to us in general like you need to be, like we'll talk like this, you need to dress like this, you need to dress like this, you know to be accepted, and so we kind of contour ourselves into the box. And what do we do in that process? Well, as people, I think we lose connection to our own souls that we eventually wake up to and have to be programmed. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think the thing that you're talking about here is like when we systemize a thing, we lose the nuance of the thing. We like forget to leave room for the magic. You know, because I know that it's happened with me both in coaching and in acupuncture, where you know there's principles that I also follow within acup or within coaching. You know, like there's things within biology, within like the nervous system, within like just mindful and conscious communication, that sort of follow through. That's kind of the structure that you know my coaching practice is built on.
Speaker 1:But then sometimes you use a tool and it doesn't turn out exactly the way that you've been taught. It should in quotation marks turn out. You know, and when we have these systemize, like these rigid systems, we can't really like our ego butts up against that, like that outlier, and instead of being like okay, well, I wonder what's happening here and being curious about it, and then following that thread and and maybe sort of like like allowing your body's wisdom to show up, allowing you know, a lot of my people would identify themselves as being channelers like allowing that channel to open up and like have that like conversation with whatever it is that you're relating to out there, you know, like your ego butts up against something and is like, nope, I can't, I can't deal, and and to me, I think that that is the downfall of systemizing something that is, you know, as you were saying, like flows, with this, like life force that we're meant to just sort of like flow with, instead of like being like well, I need to control this because I want predictable outcomes.
Speaker 2:Right, totally. Yeah, it's interesting that assertion of control, and I think if we, if we look at where you know, that's a very common response to being really dysregulated. It's a common response to wanting safety, which is as far as someone who teaches people how to do trauma resolution work. That my thoughts on the word safety, like what does safe actually mean? What's that word that people keep kind of throwing around? And there's this sense of well, safety sometimes does feel like control. It feels like there's system and I can rest on the certainty and everything's going to be promised and this is the way that it is, and everything's in this little box and that's great until it doesn't work. And then you start to look at okay, wait, why? Why isn't that always working? Well, am I resting on a survival system or am I resting on something that isn't actually informed by my intuition or soul? And that's not to say that, like you need systems, like I teach with systems, I'm sure you teach with systems, but it's the way that we're taught to identify with them. I think that is what limits people from.
Speaker 2:I think in a lot of Western schooling is what we're taught to just memorize the system, repeat the system, regurgitate the system. Who is this woman being that you're teaching? What is their innate gifts? What's their innate connection to their soul, their purpose, their whole reason for incarnating on this planet, the people that they connect with Like one of my favorite things, to like water, like help people cultivate intuitively is like what is your natural gifts? Like your natural gifts may look totally different than mine in a session, Just like and I don't think we talk about that a lot like we think, oh, the healer, but I'm sure you've seen it, I've definitely seen it. There's a lot of different kinds of healers.
Speaker 2:That do a lot of different kinds of things. Some are more fiery, some are more watery, some are just like, just like the rooted still earth. Some have a mixture and pull from multiple different things. And so if you're not working with the human being in front of you and you're just having them fit themselves into a box and then base their level of self importance or value in how good we can fit into this box, then, yeah, it gets. It gets really confusing and it can bring a lot of insecurity and, I think, insecurity that most of us hide because we're socially conditioned to be like am I in the box? Am I, am I in the valuable box with the description I'm supposed to have? Right, and a lot of that stuff happens in secret, I think in the secret, little echelons of our psyche.
Speaker 1:And to me like this is exactly why, when somebody comes to me and like they're like I really want to take your course, I really want to work with you, but I don't feel like I'm like like fully fleshed out as a practitioner, yet like I don't teach practitioners. That's why I send them to you is because I think that our core philosophies are the same, in that our work as coaches and as mentors and guides is not to like like shove a system down your throat.
Speaker 1:You know it's really about. Can we help you develop your own innate sense of intuition and like really flow into and accept your unique gifts and perhaps even your unique flaws and your history and your trauma and your entire story? Because I'm not interested in just like regurgitating like the same exact model of a business over and over and over again. You know, like I don't want people to just follow you know my quote, unquote signature formula, because I don't have a signature formula. My signature formula is like can we get you to a point where you know yourself even more deeply so that you can make like intuitively guided decisions about your business in a way that feels empowering? And I think that that's mirrored in the way that you also teach. Practitionership is like yes, of course you teach, you know frameworks and like there are certain things around just psychology and the body that people need to understand when they get into healing work. But also I see you as like somebody who leads people back into the story of themselves as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's what makes people really good at what they do. If you reach a self, knowledge is the way, and all the traditions have known this for a real long time. It's not a new thing. I didn't come up with it. It's just the thing that it just works. It makes you an amazing practitioner, but it's also, I think, the balance, and I know you and you and I both love like feminine and masculine principles, yin and yang, and you need a structure right.
Speaker 2:You need to be there and you need the principles, you need the teachings and you need the like. You know the pillars of how things work, or else you just have chaos and waves and things flowing everywhere. But you also need the feminine, you need the intuition, you need and we need to nurture that, you know, in in business decisions and practitioner cultivation and life choices. Like there's so much about that balance that is, you know, we're starting to get little glimpses of it in the Western world Like, oh, the feminine, what's that mean? Again, you know, why is? Why are those good values important? Why, like, what did we lose and how do we find that again? How do we bring it forward? But, yeah, I think, innately it's. Each person is their own human and so I think that's what's beautiful. Like, for instance, we're all in bodies.
Speaker 2:Like I am in a physical body, you're in a physical body, my mom and my dad and my partner and like we're all in forms, but we're all very different but we all need to follow the same principles, like it's great to have your sleep connected to the circadian rhythm, like those kinds of basic truths that are interconnected and more universal.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think ultimately that's that's where the balance comes in, is where we're disconnected from the intuitive nature. Yeah, to get a certificate and to feel like we're important and to feel like we have the accolades and and I think to my, I mean we could bring it into this part of the conversation, but like part of what I say to, that is okay, great. Like it could show me someone that's got all the certifications in the world. Are they? Are they good at what they do? Are they embodied in what they do? Have they fully owned what they do and do they get results with people in a way that you know shows an embodiment of whatever piece of paper you have and it's great to have no pieces of paper, but are way more wise than people that have the pieces of paper. And it's not just, it's not to discount either one, it's just to say like embodiment for me is what matters ultimately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, I think integration, embodiment and like sort of to piggyback off of what you're saying, like I'm not like an anti establishment. I think that there are some wonderful education systems out there and you know it's been interesting leading people through you know, formulating what their next steps in business are, because I've had a couple of clients where they went through my program and then at the end of it decided, like actually I don't want to start a business, I want to go back to school. But they were able to make that decision about going back to school from a really embodied place and, you know, going to the exact school that they wanted to, with the exact intentions that they wanted to go in with, you know, instead of feeling all sort of like muddy and loopy about it. And so, like I'm definitely not a, you know, I think it can be easy to sort of like ascertain, like oh cats, just like anti establishment, like no, like I think that there's there's a time and a place and for each individual it's going to be really different right. Like I am really proud of the fact that I went to the school that I went to and have the education that I do. It's been like a foundational building block for everything that I do now.
Speaker 1:But I also think that integration and embodiment are harder to test.
Speaker 1:Like, how do you test that, you know? And to me, like, like, when I am choosing a practitioner, you know I I'm going to always go for the person that I personally feel in my body, makes me feel safe, you know, makes me feel like they've done their own integration work. Because if I come up with, like, a big feeling, I need to trust that that person is not going to be scared of my big feeling. And that requires you, as a practitioner, to do your own work, to like, hold your own anger, hold your own grief, hold your own shame, so that, like, somebody can come to you and be like, I've been carrying this really heavy load around my entire life and I don't know how to process it. I don't know how and who I can share this with. Like, will you hold this with me? And if I, as a practitioner, haven't done that work, then that's that's too much for me to hold, you know. And so I think that that's the important piece here is, like, whatever it is that you do, is it embodied, is it integrated?
Speaker 2:Totally. Yeah, I feel like that piece that you just brought up to around, like how do you know how to hold the big stuff, like big emotions, big anger, big shame, big grief, I mean big ecstatic states. You know, like there's so many things that can trigger us. One of the things when we do the first retreat in Phoenix, path is we I asked a whole group of people this is fascinating, by the way. I literally wanted to lead this because I was genuinely curious for myself, I was astonished what happened, and so I just started doing it at all. The first retreats, which is I just have like a whiteboard and I go okay, tell me what emotions like aren't okay to be experienced, aren't socially acceptable, and you bet your ass. Every single one of them, every single one of them gets up on that board and then I ask which is astonishing, like okay, so just the whole, the whole spectrum of human feeling is, is not okay, is not allowed, or you're allowed to have it, but you're only allowed to have like this much of it. And in the you know and you watch the vast majority of different people from different cultures and what is commonly accepted in one culture is not commonly accepted in another culture or the the. You know the way you sexually present or gender or whatever. You know your presentation of yourself and how it's allowed for this kind of presentation, but not that kind of presentation. And it's just so interesting how, how confined we we put ourselves. But also, then what I do is I ask, okay, what are the hardest emotions for you to hold space for? And I get the same thing from a whole.
Speaker 2:Some people are like I can go into the deepest sadness and darkness, but if someone is in like ecstatic joy, that triggers the hell out of me. Or I can go into you know, really intense anger, but when someone starts to feel like aliveness or sensuality, I shut down. You know there's a lot of different things, depending on our upbringing, that will trigger these defense responses in our system where we shut down or we pull back, or you don't feel like you know what to do, like you can go do a freeze response or all of a sudden someone's reminding you of you know your anger and you don't even know that, but your nervous system is like, you know, up in arms and you're supposed to be holding space, but now all of a sudden you're in like a internal psychic battle with your fear of this person or your judgment of them, or taking something they said personally. And so when I think of integration, like that's, one of the things that I think about is it's exactly what you said. Like no matter what state that I go into, is this person going to take me emotionally or take me personally? Do I have freedom to have freedom to actually bring all of me and to trust? On the other end of that, I'm going to be caught. I'm going to be guided.
Speaker 2:Another huge thing I noticed is that there's a lot of people who me included like I know my own process like the back of my hand, and that comes in to be a detriment in sessions, because I can move through an entire session and look like the session went real well, because I moved through all the steps and I know what to do.
Speaker 2:And if the person leading me isn't super confident in their leadership or they're intimidated by the amount of work I've done on myself, then they won't call me out on things or they won't slow me down or they'll think okay, that session went great, you're the easiest client in the world and I'll come out of the session being like ah, like I'll trick myself. I'll come out of the session feeling like unsatisfied or like I didn't even really get seen because there's just a low, very advanced trickster somewhere to protect. So yeah, when I think integration and body minute, it's like it's moving with all of those different energetic states, knowing your personal relationship to them, and then you can apply the tools and the structures and what to do and what systems in front of you.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I can give you every structure in the world and if your whole body and your whole psychology is triggered by the person in front of you and everything in you goes into fight or flight or fawn or freeze, no matter what structure I give you Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, just out of like sheer curiosity, is there a particular emotion that you find hardest to hold, for yourself and for others?
Speaker 2:Oh, man I feel like I've been. I'm sure there's something I mean I don't claim to be like fully mastered and enlightened. You know, one thing that I have had to learn, I will say, in the past year, is really targeted, the certain quality of protector in certain types of people that I actually tend not to work with anymore, and I've had more of a boundary around or I didn't have a boundary around it because I was. I lean way more towards like compassionate, nurturing, holding, accepting of all the different parts, which is why I'm a really good practitioner. But there are boundaries to that.
Speaker 2:And then that I found during my sudden return last year was if there is, if there is someone that has really intelligent protectors that have malicious intent towards me, which I hadn't experienced much of, but I experienced a few times last year and being able to stand up and say no, that's not okay.
Speaker 2:And I think that was compounded for me last year because sometimes this would come up in people who were more readily enticed to get on canceling that bandwagon, and so there was definitely a feeling of you know, ancestrally I'm Jewish like getting called out by whole groups of people scares the absolute crap out of my ancestral and also has happened to me in my life. So it just kind of targeted a lot of things, and so there was a hidden fear of I'm going to get, if I don't hold this person here, then they're gonna like if I, basically if I create a boundary and this person's going to turn against me, really really finding the very sneaky hidden parts that it's like no, this. There's certain things that are okay, that do happen here, and there's certain things that do not happen here. And so if you want to come into my space, into my energy, into my groups and just into my one on one sessions, you have to be willing to see those parts of yourself.
Speaker 2:And if you are unwilling, then, with all of the love in my heart, I wish you the best, and that this is not the place for that, and so that's a little bit more nuanced. It's not like a specific emotion, but it is a very kind of psychological flavor.
Speaker 2:It's different also, I will say, than testing. You can test me all you want, like I, I get why people test healers. Like I get, why you know you can have your own little moments of like, yeah, but do you really got me? It's like, okay, cool, like check me out, check me out. Bye, if it's more towards I'm going to assert dominance and power over you to hurt you. Yeah, that was a big felt like karmic lesson for me over the past couple of years.
Speaker 1:Really, I love that, yeah, I mean I love it because I feel like I was watching you play with sacred rage for a while last year.
Speaker 2:And that's why.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to me I feel like it brings that story full circle is, like you know, of course there's a reason why you're posting about that and you know it absolutely makes sense, you know, given your ancestral background, given your personal history background, like that sacred rage was not something that was acceptable, you know.
Speaker 1:And sort of just to like sort of speak on the the testing kind of client and I get plenty of those too and for me, what I have found is that there's like a deeply rooted fear of abandonment, hopefully.
Speaker 1:And so it's like if I test you hard enough, if I give you the tantruming, most shameful, most like the parts of me that I find to be the most hideous, like will you still hold me?
Speaker 1:Is what I feel like are questions that are being asked when one clients are like testing me, and to me, like I can have the deepest compassion for that, but like, similar to you, like I do not tolerate, like I'm so, and like this is something that I kind of like ask my close friends to check me on is like am I being too rigid here sometimes with my boundaries? Because you know, there there is an aspect of me that like wants to engage in sort of like challenging conversations. Like that really does light up my soul. But recognizing where there's a challenging conversation out of like curiosity and there's a challenging conversation out of like maliciousness is is like a place that I've had to like really figure out where that knife edge lands. And you're right, like there's a total, like protector part in there and I just I don't engage with that protector part of people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's like it reminds me of you know I'm and I'm not I'm not saying that I hold nearly the level of skill that some of my teachers, who are like 1670, hold, you know. But I know when I come into their space I am here to learn and I'm here to be open and they 100% have a lot of experience with that and they 100% have always allowed me to ask questions and bring myself and I've shown all my deepest, ugliest bits, you know, and there's been love. But there's also an inherent respect for the space and there's an attitude. I think that when we hold that attitude as leaders and this goes into people pleasing like part of really being trained to be a solid practitioner is not people pleasing with your clients not going into states where you're just trying to make sure that your client likes what's going on Because all of a sudden there's a strange power dynamic.
Speaker 2:It can feel very confusing to the clients, even if they don't know what's going on, and you can lose your connection to the clarity of what you're offering, what you're going into the boundaries of your programs and your containers Just due to fear that what of what they think about you? And I think one of those things that you know is really, really key is that we understand that our clients are not there to validate us. We are here to help them through a process of transformation and healing. And so, yeah, I think that there's a lot of different ways and levels that can lean towards more of a distorted or disempowered feminine and more of a distorted, disempowered masculine, or Yin and Yang, however you want to look at it, and I think it is. You know it's a learning curve, but knowing how to hold a container as practitioner, I mean this was a huge thing for me to, actually, because I don't normally have clients like that or students like that.
Speaker 2:And because I started to. All of a sudden it was realizing oh wow, I'm great at space holding in. There's little refinements here, and that's after 14 years, you know, and that's to be a great thing. But yeah, I think it's also why it's really good to know yourself, because I know where that leads into my own personal history. I know why that's in my process If I look back at patterns in my life and I think sometimes we think that our containers professionally I don't know if you and I have talked about this, but I always find it fascinating that we think like, okay, I'm going to enter into a professional space and now my personal life just is somewhere else.
Speaker 2:And it's like you're an entrepreneur, if you're a human being, actually you're going to have reflections of your distortions and your wounds and the karmic dynamics that are playing out and lessons that you're learning everywhere. Like it's not, like the universe is like, okay, we'll just take a pause on that and your holographic you know attraction field is not going to mirror what your soul is here to learn. Right, I think it's your professional life. Like that happens in containers, it happens in groups and you can use it. You can really use it if you know how to to evolve yourself even more.
Speaker 2:Or you can take it personally and be like I'm terrible and horrible and I should quit, but I highly suggest not doing that.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and to me, like that's like the entire thesis of my, my life's work, is business being a spiritual practice you know, is because, like, I don't know about you, but I've taken all those business courses that tell me, likely the emotions out and these are the structures and these are the systems that you're supposed to do to get to a six-figure business. And, you know, and I started noticing that those things didn't work for me, because I would go into a free state if somebody, like, like a client I felt like we had a good connection call, and then they like didn't reach out to me, you know, and I would go into like fight states when, like, I would be creating curriculum and so I was like there is no way that like like the person can be kept out of the business world. And so it's like what would happen if I just accepted that that's going to show up and like it's just another iteration of the same lesson being asked to like, like, can you look at me again? Can you look at me with like deeper sort of compassion? And now, having been on the other side of many, many years of business, I like, I'm horrible with numbers and time, but like, like, I can confidently say that my business has led me into lessons that I would have never learned otherwise, and I'm so, so grateful to not just my like.
Speaker 1:I think of them as two different things like my, like my own practice. Your ship, you know, is like one piece of it, and I feel like that has pretty much sort of stayed intact, just in terms of like, like having my emotions show up in ways that don't feel the most healthy, but like when it comes to my business, like so many patterns around my life that I tried and not wanting to be seen and derValua myself and you know, like comparison, like all that stuff showed up and so, instead of being like well, what's wrong with me? I decided like pretty much in like accept that this is showing up and like what can I do differently? You?
Speaker 1:know, why is it showing up again and how can I change this? Because like it was like an anxious attachment, like that was coming up. So like, if that's coming up again, then how can I engage with it in this realm instead of just in the romantic space, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I mean, there's such a when you take on the perspective of being a lifelong student, there's so much fruit, there's so much. And when you have the curiosity there, like there's just so much more, that you constantly get to see and to learn and to have spaciousness around and evolve it to and be like, oh, wow, okay, that's what's going on, like that's. It's like you get to learn the different inner mechanics of yourself and then how that there's this beautifully orchestrated experience with your clients and your partners and your, you know, life is like it's got a whole harmony that moves through everything.
Speaker 2:And so I think, again, we have the principles to that. What are the like, the noble truths of life that have been passed down to us for a long time by different spiritual traditions? And then, what is your lived experience in relationship to your relations and the way you're showing up and you know huge things, I mean like basic things too. Are you asking for enough help? Are you taking enough space for yourself or taking care of yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, which can sound like little sentences, but are actually really big deals when it comes to absolutely leaders, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think that, like the important part that you said earlier, that I'm, that I've been like in the back of my mind sort of chewing on, is like refinement. You know, I think oftentimes I don't know I've personally felt this like oh my God, I have been doing this healing for so goddamn long, like when?
Speaker 2:when is it done? Like I?
Speaker 1:am done now, you know, and certainly like that, I don't know like healing, exhaustion comes in for sure and like, thankfully, it's been a while since I've had like a huge sort of like upheaval in my life. But I think that the refinement means that you get to go back and like bring in like more layers of color and more layers of texture into like emotions that you previously have integrated and have integrated well, and it's like, oh, okay, so like can we make that a little bit more refined? And I feel like like it was interesting when you were talking about the whiteboard activity, because people don't necessarily think about joy and I would also put in there like relief and peace as being hard emotions to work with. But like in my own personal experience, like I feel like peace is the like thing that I'm like struggling with, which sounds like a weird sentence to say, but it's like, you know, like my relationship is going well, my business is going well. I just had the like easiest launch of my entire life I've.
Speaker 1:You know, my husband and I are purchasing like our dream property. We have like all these things planned for and like there's like this protector part. That's like, yeah, but you can't really trust that you know, and like looking and scanning for that next shoe to drop and being like this can't be real, like this can't be true. And I find that like once you sort of like dig through and sort of like work and massage all those layers of like grief and anger and sort of the like, more classically, like difficult emotions to play with, like underneath that is like oh hi, I'm happy and that's also hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, can you like, how much can you expand your capacity for neutrality and pleasure and calm? And I think ultimately, you know most people are like, oh, trauma work is about all these other big, more agitated emotions and ultimately it's, you know, that's where it leads into is like?
Speaker 2:can you have more of a deep relationship with acceptance and receiving and and being provided for and letting people in and letting yourself rest into what's here and accepting it and not needing for it, like not needing to prove yourself to have things, and there's so much that goes into like what arrest? The reason why arrested nervous system feels very, very skeptical if you've lived in a state that is very, not neutral.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot and so, yeah, I mean I think that's a huge part of a huge part of the practice, of all of it. Also, congratulations, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it goes so far as to like like I feel kind of embarrassing this out loud, but like earlier this year, like I was just an asshole to my husband for like a full on like month and it was just like like nitpicking and like thank God he's like the most patient person ever.
Speaker 1:But, like you know, like when it came down to it, I had a friend of mine do a human design reading for me and like one of my gates is about like the gate of conflict.
Speaker 1:And you know that can go several different ways, but like one of the ways it's played out as a gift for me in my life is like I am really good at going into conflict with other people, like meaning like not just like I'm creating waves, but just like, if conflict happens, like I'm a solid person, to like lean on in those moments.
Speaker 1:And like my body was just so used to being with people in conflict that like it didn't know how to just like be with the peace. And you know, when we got under the layers of it it was just like my body doesn't feel safe all the time when it's peaceful. And you know, like I can track that back to to like childhood and like family dynamics and sibling dynamics and all that stuff. But like ultimately, like this is where that work needs to happen, both as a business person and as a practitioner. Because like imagine if I can't hold space for somebody's capacity to just like be happy with where they are in life, you know then I would, as a practitioner, be pushing them to like do the next thing before the time is ready for them to do the next thing. You know, instead of just being able to like slow down and celebrate and be with the energy of the moment, which is just peace and joy and happiness and like yeah, I guess, like celebration.
Speaker 2:Totally. Yeah, I think that's one of the things, also like one of the things when I'm teaching people how to go into client strategy is and in a meta way, like how to go through the course, because it is a pretty intensive course but you have to have a balance. I found over not having this balance for a long time of like, enjoying, like, have something that like allows you to deeply enjoy life, that allows you to pause, that allows you to just even if it's only an hour out of your week but hopefully you can find more than an hour out of your week and most of us can if we look at how much run our phones and technology and all this other stuff to just feel connection to creativity or inspiration or enjoyment, and how common it is to think, oh, we have to keep digging, digging, digging, digging for stuff, because some, for some people it's it's actually not that it's you want material to work with. How much can you expand your capacity to be in a surrendered, joyful, peaceful state? And then the fear that comes up around like you can work on all all those things.
Speaker 2:Okay, what's the fear that comes up around not having this and what's that contraction and what's that like trying to, you know, scan your environment for control. But it's true, you know, if you and I I work with a lot of women who, like in my one on one work it's with a lot of women are like I have every, that's like the main thing that I work with in my one on one work I like I have a successful business, I know how to like my life is running, I have a team I can lean on and I'm not happy, I feel empty, I feel like I don't even know how to fully receive the life that I have. And I find it interesting that we will create kind of like what you said with your partner, like we will literally create things to be upset with or like have to dig into or have to figure out if we're not actually comfortable, just kind of like being and giving you know and it's it's hard to even notice it when it's happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that kind of leads me to want to ask about leading and you can take this either like as a practitioner or as an entrepreneur like leading from the feminine space or in space of values and intention. And because I feel like so much, of the world right now. And did I lose?
Speaker 2:you again. Yeah, I heard leading from the values of the feminine space.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let me see where I want to back it up to. Sorry, andre, editing. Thanks, andre. Okay, so I feel called to just like dig into and you can take this either from the practitioner perspective or the entrepreneur perspective of like leading your work, leading your life from the feminine ideals of values and intention, because I feel like so much of what is being validated nowadays I think that this kind of ties back into the conversation about like credentialing and external markers is very like young, masculine focused and very structure focused and like why is it so important to like actually do the slow work of values and intentions?
Speaker 2:I mean on one level. I think that you know we hear the stories a lot of what I just said. Like you can have the accolades, you can have the money, you can have the car, you can have the house, which are great, it feels really good to have them. Highly suggest finding ways to feel good in the life that you're creating. And if you're creating those things because of insecurity, because you feel like you need to to be happy, because you feel like you need to become something in the external world, to be valid in the way that society sees you, etc.
Speaker 2:You can get all that stuff and believe I've worked with lots of people. I've been there like you can get all the stuff and still be miserable, and I think part of that comes from not having connection to your values when you go into any endeavor. Really, I mean no, first and foremost. I think knowing what's important to you is incredibly necessary to and when I say what's important to me, like what makes you, what do you stand for, what's your, what's your purpose and your mission here, because there's a lot of purposes and missions that can be given to you. There's a lot of values that social media will just dole out to you about the way that you should look or dress or talk or be or whatever. You know, pop culture will give us a lot of different values and things, but I think finding what's most important to us, first and foremost, and then aligning with those things, first within ourselves and then in the actions we take in the world and the choices we make in the world, is what actually creates fulfillment.
Speaker 2:Like I know, for me, my the way that I want to be in the world as a leader, and what I feel so deeply in my like, being that the world needs as leaders, as leaders who are well cultivated, who are connected to integrity, who want and are standing for the highest, most healed, most empowered version of humanity possible. That's most connected to our souls and most connected to our mission on this planet at this time. And so, for me, I need to do that, I need to walk the talk of that, and when I am doing that, I feel really freaking good. And I think, as practitioners or as business owners, you know the way that you operate in your life is what builds confidence. Like it and I almost builds confidence is a funny way to say that it is where you find confidence is by doing those things and standing in those things, and it's very common for us to kind of like lean a little bit. Okay, well, I'm just going to kind of sacrifice this part of myself just a little bit. And I'm just going to sacrifice this part of myself just because I think there's a social media trend in this person that I'm following is doing the XYZ and they're getting a lot of attention. So maybe I should do it that way.
Speaker 2:And there's all these little moments where we can start to stray from what's important to us. And I think when we look at for me, like when I look at the people that inspire me the most they're very defined in their values. They know, and it's like their relationship to their values and what they want to be and feel and what they feel like the word world needs is like this intimate, deep, ongoing conversation with life and themselves. And then they show up in certain ways, they speak in certain ways, they talk in certain ways, they commit to certain things, they take actions in certain ways and all of that, all of that is what we kind of see an experience on the other end. But it's not because you know they're doing it for the approval of other people. It's what's important to them is important to them, and so they make it their teacher to be that way in life. And I think that you can start to see where people's values and your and your own values. You know like we're not perfect. I'm not perfect.
Speaker 2:I've been led astray many a time and had to realize that I'm doing something that doesn't actually intrinsically feel like me, but I think you'll notice over time, like some and I want to I want to try lightly saying this because I'm not trying to like talk crap about different people.
Speaker 2:Everyone's in their own experience of life and like there's totally people that I've watched like, oh, this is a trend, so now I'm doing that. Or like this person's popular, so I'm associating and affiliating with them, and now this person's getting canceled, so now I'm not affiliating with them and now I'm doing that. And it's like the whole way that their internal world is focused is more based on like am I accepted and validated by the external world all the time? How can I keep getting on top? You know I trust those people less and they're on their journey, but like I don't want to invest in them, I don't feel a continuity in their messaging. I don't feel a continuity in how they show up within themselves and and the people that I do are the people that you know that that are making decisions based on what feels important to their sole mission.
Speaker 2:And for me that's a big thing, like you can have a value of, like you want success and you want a luxurious, beautiful life, whatever that means to you. To me that means like a fancy treehouse house. You know that may not mean like a mansion or whatever but like give me like a creek in a stream and a nice like banyan tree house and I'm happy. But you know, whatever that is, you can have those things, but it's how you and your life are, um, are relating to and showing up to and speaking to those things, and I think I know I'm kind of tangiting here. But the last thing I'll say on that is I feel like we are this is the way I personally feel. I feel like I engage in social media or in the external world One of the big things that I am up against, and I don't want to say it that way but that's what it feels.
Speaker 2:Pop culture is the same is I am up against something that is telling me how to be and what to do and what's liked and what's important and what's valuable. And I know in my soul what I feel is important and what's valuable and the things that I want to see in this world and ultimately that makes me stick out as a leader. People notice that. They resonate with that. That's why people like to be trained by me. That's why people like to work with me, because they can feel that in me and they resonate with that. But is it scary? Absolutely. Sometimes it's super scary to say like things that are not commonly accepted and feel like I'm the only one on a little tiny soapbox screaming into a void of you know, like, should I be doing a TikTok dance while I'm doing it or whatever. That's like a benign example. But yeah, I think ultimately it's what makes you stick out as a leader. It's what makes you help to find your people.
Speaker 2:And yeah it's scary because you can feel like no one actually does anyone actually care about this, and a lot of people do. A lot of people do. It's just they're also sitting there feeling like they're the only ones that feel that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think to me living my life from a feminine like rooted in my like Yin, and building my business from Yin space and building my partition or shut from Yin space. Like the word efficiency comes to mind, which kind of sounds like a young word. But the reason why I say efficiency and I love that I get to have this conversation with you specifically because I'm reflecting back on, like when I had my Saturn return, you know, when I was your age, I was that person who was like, well, I did all the things that you know my family life. At the time I wasn't into social media. I'm like you know, I'm still from the generation where, like phones didn't exist when we were young and so, like I remember getting to that place where I was like well, my business is successful, my acupuncture business is successful. You know, I'm at the time I was married to a different man. I we had bought a house in Santa Cruz which, if you know anything about California real estate, is just like fucking bananas to do, and like we had sort of like marked off all those pieces.
Speaker 1:And when I look back on the 30 year old version of me it's like, oh honey, like you just did, all the things that I think about my mom as being a really active voice in that space. I think about like culture and society, being like a more active voice in that space, rather than my own sort of internal like intuition and knowing. And you know I love that you're sitting here at 30 talking to me about how closely connected you are to your intuition, because it's like dang, jess, like when you're my age, like like you've just sort of like you've taken a bit more of a shortcut than I've had, you know, which is not to like value or devalue either of our stories, but like I get really excited for, you know, 38 year old Jess, and like where she's going to be and so like that's what I think about in terms of like efficiency and now, like the things that bring me joy are like the fucking weird as shit. That like that, like honestly, I feel like my inner child is so stoked. You know I am so like just like a tangible example of that is, you know, like you're happy in a treehouse.
Speaker 1:Like my husband and I are literally buying our dream property which has no house. We're going to have to dig a well, we're going to have to put in a septic system. We are literally plan. Our plan for the next two to three years is to live out of our trailer in a horse barn and it's like a fancy horse barn but like it's still a horse barn. There's like no running water, no septic yet, and we're going to insulate out the tack room where people would normally store their saddles and that's going to be our bedroom for the next two to three years.
Speaker 1:And I am so excited, like so much more excited about this move than any other move that I've made in my life and other people would look at that and be like, are you fucking crazy? You know, like what is wrong with you? And to me it's like no, like this is what happens when you get to be fully embodied in the things that bring you joy is like you get to make those weird choices and like I don't give a shit what other people think. Like that I'm going to sleep in a tack room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that that's what's that comes from, like actually really knowing yourself.
Speaker 2:You know, it's funny when you start to look at the things that that you're supposed to think are valuable and I'm like I'm not really sure what to do with this with. You know, I have some, some cousins, who are younger than me. They're like Brinking on Gen Z, gen Alpha, but you know, it's like sweet to watch hindsight. It's always 2020. We're like it's got like the chains and the car, like a little bit gangster kind of, even though they grew up in West County, west Sonoma County, in California. We'll take it and you can feel, with the caricature of it, like oh, this is what you think you're supposed to have to be happy. And I think that you know if you're creating your life, like you're creating your vision, you're working with people in the way that you most crave and want to work with people and I think that's also really important to understand is like you can have your job title but like what do you want the depth of your interactions to be with the people that you're working with? What do you want the feeling of on the other end of your sessions or on the other end of the programs that you're offering? Not just that you're offering the programs or you have a full. That's great.
Speaker 2:You have a full course Awesome. You have a successful launch Great. How do you? What do you want to feel, in interwoven into what you're spending your precious, precious life force on and in these interconnections with Because the that's where you're going to find your satisfaction is knowing what you want. In that that feeling, and you know all of the different things, whether it's the car or the, how you look or what you think you want, so we're you know it's. It's like it isn't actually about the way anyone tells you to be. It's literally about your experience of how you're spending your life force, energy and your time and your space in your life, and then what you go to create from that, which ultimately like can be buying your dream property and renovating a tack room to be the coolest tack room bedroom you've ever seen, and living in a trailer with your partner on land.
Speaker 2:Like that sounds amazing to me, but you know, that's not the common thing that we think will create happiness. Yeah, and then we have people living in penthouse suites all over the world that are completely unhappy, addicted to drugs a lot of the time or all sorts of other things, because they can't fill that void. And I've had friends that I have watched go down that road, and it's really sad and lonely when you are connected from what makes life fulfilling to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and it's like to me what you just said like hits it on, like just strikes home for me because it's like when you live a life where you're honoring your essentially like resources like when you talk about like time and energy I would also put money in there like you're honoring your resources in a values driven way, then the aligned action which is more of the young aspect of it like becomes a lot more clear. So like yes, we can go to a bank and go get a construction loan and build out a house. But when we crunch the numbers, we're like okay, so if we wanted to build a house, it would be like $250,000 or so, so we can go get a loan for that from the bank. Over the course of that loan it's going to cost us $600,000 to pay it off, and so like that's not where we want our money to go. And so we're willing to be like okay, so we're going to just like rough it and glamp it for two to three years so that we can pay cash for the house.
Speaker 1:And so, like when you really sit with the intentionality and like another big thing that we're really like committed to is living in relationship with the land and homesteading and like living with the cycle of nature and like all these aspects.
Speaker 1:It makes decision making so much more clear. And I feel that way about you know when you can do that in your business. You know if you can be really really clear about, let's say, even just the people that you're talking to, instead of just being like, well, anybody is welcome into my space, it's like no, like get really clear and specific about who you want to be working with and be really, really empowered in your yeses and noes, that changes the aligned actions that you're going to take in your business. You know, if you're really really clear in how you want to hold space and embody who you are as a practitioner, again, that like like sort of like mycelial branch that out and like your aligned actions are going to be so much more different if you aren't intentional. And so to me, I think that, like in intention, integration which are all these like big words that we've been throwing around in this conversation is like the fundamental first step in doing anything in your life.
Speaker 2:Totally yeah. I think that that's ultimately the thing that makes you feel most fulfilled. For me, knowing this conversation is making me think about like fulfillment, satisfaction, joy, filled up, confident, solid, secure in yourself. Is this category of feelings and experiences? They are more Yin because their internal feelings are not based on resting on the external world and their different people. So what's going to make me feel fulfilled?
Speaker 2:Maybe different than you, but do I know for a fact that, especially if you like want to know, like at least for me, like you want to deliver like really amazing results to your people, the ability to do that is one of the most reshading, fulfilling things for me, because that is what I'm here to do, that's what I'm here for, that's what I'm committed to for as like a life path and career and purpose in this world.
Speaker 2:So nothing can you know, no amount of. I mean it's great for me to understand, like how to market myself and how to have those conversations and feel confident and clear in my messaging and like have that translate externally into the way that I communicate and this internal like place that I get to rest, knowing that that's just there, Like no one can take that away from me and the situation of like knowing the practices that work really well for me, knowing the things that fill me up, so so, so much, that are very simple sometimes and so simple that I forget them actually sometimes. You know, it just kind of reminds me of like the rat wheel, rat race feeling. That, I think, is what tends to make us forget that stuff.
Speaker 2:I got to get this future moment so that I can feel XYZ and it's like, okay, but what cultivates something that creates a stable foundation internally so that you can feel XYZ while you're moving to and through life? Yeah, totally backwards way of, I think, seeing it in the modern world. But, yeah, it's better math. I think it's better math.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, absolutely, and it's like you know that's the thing is. When you break it down into these like fundamental aspects, it's really fucking simple. It's like the brain and the doer and the young part of us that makes things really complicated, but the young part of us doesn't like complicated either. The young part of us really likes having clear direction. You know, and that's what the beauty and the gift of the yin and the feminine is is like like when you are sitting in your values and you're sitting in your intentions. It gives the young part of you just like clear mandate, clear direction so that we can move forward.
Speaker 1:And to me, like that is like like you can apply that concept to practitionership, business, life, relationship, all those aspects, totally Well. Is there anything else you want to like drop in here In terms of like either a wrap up for you and like highlighting some of the things that you feel like like really, really important, that you just want to make sure that people really get, or anything that we didn't cover that you just like oh wait, but I mean, I think, to drive the point home at the beginning of the podcast, which is like if you're worried about not having a certificate, or like having a certain title to your name to prove it, I would.
Speaker 2:I would say, like I would point towards cultivation, I would say, yeah, a certificate's great, and if you actually cultivate yourself in a skill set to master and know every single part of that and know yourself incredibly deeply and know how to dive into places that you're afraid to dive into, a certificate in a piece of paper is not going to allow you just to like I could give you, I could go on Canva right now. I can make you a real cool looking certificate. I'm going to give you more confidence. Yeah, the whole representation of having a certificate for anything is, hopefully, that on the other side of whatever got you that piece of paper, you feel more connected to yourself, you feel more empowered, you feel more filled up, you feel more, hopefully, like a badass and more confident in your skill set and also like really able to go into and do and create the results that you want to through the training.
Speaker 2:So you know, one of the things that I talk about a lot is that, yeah, I'll give you like for me and, I think, for any other thing that you choose to do, any other thing that you're like, I need to invest my time, my energy, my money in this so that I have a certain level of value. Do that so that, yeah, get your piece of paper but like, do it so that your end result is an embodied state of confidence, knowing and like, not only a grasp but an ability to wield whatever it is that you're learning, and find a teacher that knows confidently that they can get you those results, as long as you work with them and meet them and how they're training you. Is that feeling you, it won't matter. You know I don't hang any of my certain. I have a lot of them. I don't hang any of them in my room. I don't need to, because I know what I hold, I know what I can create and I know what I can do.
Speaker 2:And that's the feeling you're actually looking for, our society's new, towards having a name card and having this and having that all checked off. I can promise you. I know people with all of those things that you know sound like a great spaceholder and yeah, anyway, I could go in deeply into that, like if that was the case. There's a lot of people see and talk therapist right now and they're not satisfied fully. That's why the whole coaching industry is here. So, yeah, it's, it's. It's more about the feeling that you want, and so get really clear about what that feeling is for yourself and what you want on the other side of whatever kind of training that you do. And yeah, that's. I think that's the main, the main thing that I would want to really drive home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for just reconnecting with me. I'm so glad that we got to catch up, that we get to dive into these sort of squishy places. I would love for folks to hear about Phoenix Path. That's the practitioner training that I recommend to folks when they come into my space and they're like I don't know how to be a practitioner. So can you just share a little bit more about the program itself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Phoenix Path is a. It's a six month training. It's a multi-modality training. It is trauma-informed, but it also trains you to work with trauma, meaning that when core charges come up for people, you know how to go into them in a way that feels not only safe but like dynamic. You know how to work with what's happening in a space with someone and move them into a place that feels more connected and more in connection with themselves. It's healed and also resolved in the thing that's coming up. But there's also a lot of leadership techniques, a lot of teaching of attachment, wound ring, of childhood development, of how to work with different people who have different systems. A lot of it is very somatic based, but there's also a lot of energetic foundations as well in it and it's an intensive training.
Speaker 2:So one of the things, too, that is really that I love about it is some of the students that have loved their experience the most like. They will range from very beginner to. I've had my coaching business successful for like five, six, seven, eight, nine years and I've just wanted deeper tools for my people to show up with, for my groups, for my programs, for my one-on-ones, and so it works if you want an advanced training and if you're more towards the beginning but you've done a bit of emotional work before, then it's great for you. If you're at the very, very, very beginning and you've never touched a single internal emotion or done any introspective work, there's other courses that I have that are more self-paced. For that I have a course called Center. That's really good for that. But Phoenix Path is for the someone who wants to be embodied in their leadership and practitioner work with groups and one-on-ones and know how to work with trauma resolution as well as be trauma-informed and have a lot of modalities to use when you need them in your toolkit.
Speaker 1:Love it Well, thank you so much, and how can people find you in the internet world?
Speaker 2:Instagram. My name is Jessica Benstock and on Instagram is Jessicabenstock, and then my website is Jessicabenstockcom.
Speaker 1:Yay, yeah, I know, thank you again, friend. And yeah, let's not let it go too long until our next podcast recording and or hang out. Yes, hopefully both yeah.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much.