116. CREATIVE WAYFINDING: The Alchemy of Creativity and Business with Writer, Creativity Coach + BAM Community Member Sarah Cook

What if creativity was more than just an abstract concept, but rather a life force that reflects your soul? Join me as I traverse the dynamic landscape of running a business intertwined with creativity. I shed light on my recent integration work and the changes it has brought into my life. In this journey, I am not alone. I am accompanied by the inspiring Writer and Creativity Coach, Sarah Cook, an alumni of the business alchemist mentorship program, whose courage has sparked my transformation.

We delve into the complexities of creativity, its impact on cultural heritage, and the challenges it presents in business. Sharing a heartfelt personal tale about my mother's creative voyage and the role colonization may have played in shaping our artistic sensibilities, I hope to inspire you to view creativity through a different lens. As we navigate through the ebb and flow of running a business, I share the concept of "good hard" work and how it can help create a life that mirrors not just your bank account, but your inner self as well.

Towards the end, we unpack the intricacies of creativity, its ties with responsibility, and how it can become intertwined with our personal traumas. As I reveal my struggles with creative expression, and the internal pressure to deviate from the norm, I invite you to reflect on your relationship with creativity. Lastly, I reveal a significant rebranding of my business and how I'm inviting creativity into my space as a decolonizing ritual. So, are you ready to embark on this creative journey and redefine your relationship with creativity?

This week's stories feel incomplete without pictures so if you head over to Instagram, I've posted photos of my mom's art, my stamp engraved with my Korean name, the windows my grandpa gifted me, tiger swallowtails, my embroidery and my mini horse Winnie. You can see it all HERE.

I signed up for Sarah's Creative Wayfinding Coaching Package. She is offering listeners of The Rooted Business Podcast $33 off til the end of 2023 when you use the code "curiosity"


Sarah Cook is a writer, poet, and creativity coach, who specializes in helping individuals reclaim their artistic agency so they can create with more ease and enchantment. She writes For the Birds, a Substack newsletter about resiliency, the writing life, and the natural world. Visit sarahteresacook.com to learn more.

Connect with Sarah: 

• Website
• Substack
• Instagram
• Podcast

Kat HoSoo Lee is a trauma-informed Spiritual Business Mentor and host of The Rooted Business Podcast. She uses the tools of somatic and emotional alchemy to guide soulful entrepreneurs to approach their business as a spiritual practice. This allows them to cultivate businesses that are rooted in conscious values, ethical marketing and purposeful service.

Connect with Kat:

• Book a Free Connection Call
• Business Alchemist Mentorship
• Instagram
• Youtube

This podcast is made possible with sound production by Andre Lagace.

Transcript

Kat HoSoo Lee: 2:36

Business is a spiritual practice. I believe this truly and deeply in my bones and yet, even after all this time of exploring this theory, I am still amazed at the portals that business walks me through. Today, I am returning to this podcast, which I absolutely love, after taking about a month off, and I want to put off in quotation marks like bold and highlighted, because you're going to start seeing some changes around here in this space, and a lot of these changes are happening because of that intensive, slow, quotation mark off integration work that I've been doing for this last month, and I also want to highlight, too, that it's not just this last month. These routes go back further than this last month. I definitely don't want you to leave with this impression that I just decided that I'm going to do this whole rebrand and then, a month later, here we go, because it goes so much deeper than that it is. I really think about business as being a relational practice and so, because relationships change over time, this is what my business is asking us to move forward into Now. I want to have a conversation with you today specifically about creativity in business, and we're going to talk about its interwoven relationship to our lives, to our businesses and this recent portal that business invited me personally to walk through so that I can gain a deeper relationship with creativity, because this whole rebrand has so much to do with this dance that I've been doing with creativity Creativity, just to give you a little bit of context. To me it's as essential as air, and I get that this sounds a little bit dramatic, but this is literally what it feels like in my body when I can't hold the threads of creative energy. I feel like I can't breathe. And I recently came up against what I would previously have called a creativity block and I've long since reframed this as a creativity pause because I felt this thing, this energy of slowness, of stagnation, of stuckness, enough times that I know and I trust that creativity is going to return to me. But this one felt really big. It felt like I was processing not just my own creativity wound but my lineages creativity wound, my mother's creativity wound, and it was showing up in all the ways that I expressed myself, both personally and professionally, and it felt too big, honestly, to hold by myself. So I reached out to someone I felt could hold this bigness with me.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 5:19

This lovely human's name is Sarah Cook. She is a business alchemist mentorship alumni and I had the opportunity to walk beside her and hold space for her as she moved through some big energy in her own world. When it came to entrepreneurship, and if you were to ask me to describe Sarah, the first word that comes to mind is brave. I watched this woman go through so many phases of caterpillar, chrysalis and butterfly that I've lost count. And she did all that with so much compassion, understanding and feeling for herself. Even when it was hard, even when I could tell she really just wanted to turn away, she looked at all the protective layers and built up her own capacity to respond to situations within and outside of herself, and this is why I say that she is brave. I didn't realize that at the time, but watching her build up her own muscle of self trust in this way was silently building up the trust that would ultimately lead me to hiring her as a coach to help me hold this creative bigness, the stubbornness and the cultivation of my own creativity.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 6:26

I am currently watching creativity interweave herself in my business in ways that I didn't really anticipate. I'm going to finally have a website. This is going to be the first since I've quit my acupuncture practice back in 2020. And the look and the feel of the business is also going to shift. I'm even changing the name of the business and the podcast Now.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 6:48

I didn't reach out to Sarah thinking that I needed a whole new rebrand of my business, but here we are. She is one of the solid hands that has helped me through this process. I initially reached out to Sarah because I felt frozen, thinking about mending a hole in my favorite sweater, which I knew was connected to my relationship to creativity in some way. But I needed somebody to help steward that conversation between myself and my creativity. Sarah and I did two sessions together and I'm going to be sharing both of those sessions here with you in this podcast episode. Aspects of that first session feels a little too tender and also a little bit too rambly to share publicly, so I'm going to with the help of Andrea, the producer, of course we're going to weave together a story of where I was when I reached out to Sarah. The second session feels really nervous, exciting and cathartic to share, so I'm going to be sharing that one in its entirety.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 7:44

I'm sharing all this because I can't tell you how many times I've heard you make this look so easy and, honestly, there was a version of me who wanted to keep that illusion alive. I had convinced myself that it was more professional, but it was just this sneaky way of my perfectionist parts trying to justify withholding the parts of me that don't quite feel complete. But what is complete anyway? The reality is that it's not easy running a business, especially if you invite it to flow into your spiritual practice. I'm irritated by all of those Instagram business mindset coaches who sell folks on this idea that their lives are so easeful that they work 10 hours a week and spend their days sipping my ties on the beach in Bali and if you just enroll in their program, you can be right where they are. And I've had conversations with some of those folks folks who run multi million dollar coaching businesses, and what looks shiny on the outside is pretty dysregulated when you peek behind the curtain. So I want to share a different message when it comes to running a business. I want to show that it's not easy, but it's a good hard, and I want to normalize the good hard of running a business. Good hard means that it's possible to look forward to the tasks of each day. Good hard means that I am building a life that sees a lined effort as a serotonin boost. Good hard means that my community sees me as a human. Good hard means that I am changing the culture of reciprocity through my business, which is not to say that it's not useful, but the ease comes from living a life that feels like a living breathing 3d expression of my doll. It comes from healthy striving rather than chasing the dopamine fix of likes or numbering your bank account.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 9:33

And today I'm hoping to spark curiosity in your own life and your in your own story about how you can invite creativity to take an active role in your business. Okay, so here we go. Like I said, it all started with a hole in my favorite sweater and then my brain started overthinking as it does in these lines. And so here's past cat being guided by Sarah cook. I feel like, just for my own sake of like hearing the story out loud and like one sort of piece, it would be helpful for me to just sort of start from the beginning. Yeah, so I don't know, I'm having all these like weird feelings about like putting personal touches on things. I guess is like a way to sort of like umbrella it. So it started out with, like, as you know, like I needed to mend a sweater, thinking about doing embroidery and then kind of just going into a freeze response around embellishing an article of clothing that is very near and dear to me and that I want to, like extend its life.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 10:49

And I know that like I don't really want to wear a holy sweater and so it's like, oh, be really nice to like put a little embellishment on it and just like cover up the hole and then went into this like complete freeze state, which is so interesting to like notice in my body and I think it the fact that it has to do with embroidery is really interesting to me. After I had shared all those pieces with you around, perhaps this relationship that I have with creativity and recognizing that like one of the things that you do when you take control over a population is you take away their art, you take away their spirituality, you take away color and just sort of recognizing that like, oh, my gosh, the aesthetic of the 2020 seems to be this, like very I'm sure it's very present in Portland because there's so many coffee shops.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 12:02

Like every coffee shop I walk into is this like like clean white lines, minimalist, like black handles like very simple, right, and I'm wondering if there's an aspect of that that is coming from a place of I mean, I don't want to like use the word colonization in the sort of like trendy way that it's been used a lot these days, but like this aspect of like sort of taking away people's culture to this very neutral state and having that sort of be the like character of a place, let's say so. Anyways, I took mushrooms the other day after sharing all that with you, and had this memory like really beautifully like resurface that brought up a lot of feelings. My mom is an amazing artist. She I mean I should show you pictures of stuff that she's done but like she makes these like colored pencil drawings that look almost real to me, of like flowers and and plants and things like that.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 13:30

And I didn't realize how talented she was until like later on in life because she essentially like spent so much time raising me and my brother and sort of like, like you know, carting us around to art class or to tennis or to swim class or you know, all those things that you do when you're a kid.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 13:58

And I had this memory resurface of like being, I want to say, like middle school-ish age and my going to my grandmother's house. My grandmother lived really close to where we lived and my grandma and grandpa like lived in a house that was like much too big for them and my grandma had this like one room that was like filled with like old clothes from when, like my mom was a kid and like like kind of like a shrine to like past life that like my mom and my grandma had, and I don't really remember why we were in there, but my mom started pulling out these really beautiful art pieces and the two that I remember like so vividly is she had this like like you know how like there's like wall screens, like sort of like like silk screen like wall screens.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 15:20

So she had made one of those when she was a teenager and it had these like like intricately embroidered cranes and water and flowers. Like it was incredible with like so much detail. My mom was telling me it took her like two or three years to finish it and like I remember just being like like that was the first time I even like can remember seeing like any aspect of my mom's creativity. And then the other piece that she shared with me is this like giant painting of like a watercolor sparrow, like it would have like stand like an entire like living room wall if you put it up, and it was like done on rice paper.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 16:20

And and then there was also like a lot of sadness with with my mom's relationship to art, because she was really really pretty when she was younger. She still is a gorgeous woman, but like I think she got a lot of attention from men at an early age. That was, I don't know that she necessarily recognized it as a threat, but I think my grandmother did. And so to keep her busy, my mom said that like my grandma basically made her do this like giant screen embroidery piece to like keep her inside so that there wouldn't be men looking at her.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 17:15

And then there's also an aspect of my mom's story where she kind of had to like what her creativity aside Like I know that she was super interested in art, growing up to the point that, like like in Korea, if you're an artist, you actually get a separate name, like almost like a pen name, and like you get a stamp made of that name and, like in Korea, the stamp is like as good as your signature. Like you could take a stamp like I have one like you can take your stamp to the bank and stamp it, and it's like that's a legally binding sort of like signature. So she has these stamps made of her artist name. Like I know that like that was like a big part of who she was and basically, like her immigrating to the States, like she like had to put all of that away to like work and survive and, like you know, make money. And so I think that there's an aspect of my sort of exploration around creativity that has nothing to do with me In that like like I'm sort of recognizing that part of the creativity wound is my mom's part of the creativity wound I'm sure like goes back many, many generations, because Korea has been colonized like over and over and, over and over again through the years, like there's not really a time in history that like I can like go back into, that it hasn't been colonized by either Japan or China, and now there's like US military occupation there.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 19:40

So, and I think that there's not really ever been a time in my childhood that I can remember where it was like okay to like do a thing and make mistakes and mess up, like it's almost like if it's not technically perfect, then why are you doing this? Or if another aspect of that is like you do the thing to show the world, almost. And so I'm finding this relationship with my writing in particular, where it's been a while since I've written just for myself and so like even sort of like bringing awareness to that has sort of like stopped my desire to write. It's been a while since I've put stuff up on Instagram. Like I feel like I've like intentionally taken a pause because I kind of want to explore this, and then, like it's also showing up in like sort of the ways in which, like I want to like set up space too. So, yeah, I mean, I think I just like meandered a bit, so I'm going to pause there and just see if there's pieces of meandering like pluck out there.

Sarah Cook: 21:26

Yeah, I think there are a few, and I'm sort of I feel the sort of webbiness of all of this and it's making me think of like rhizomatic routes, like they are hard to trace, but they're all connected and they actually like, even though on some level you're talking about all these different things, there's like an emotional tone to them that connects. I feel really called, I think, amidst all of this, to just ask you a big question and see how this lands, which is, I'm curious, what your creativity is responsible for.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 22:21

Like, in a way, my creativity is responsible for, like, my livelihood. You know, like I think about my marketing, the offers that I create, like like they're all a very big part of my creative process. But then I also don't want it to just be that. You know, like I recognize that my creativity wants to show up in other ways, like through embroidery, or through just writing for myself, or through painting, or through decorating my home. And I feel like that's such an interesting question because, like, maybe I've made it like a really big thing in my mind because I've sort of tied it to this like idea of colonization, like almost like reclaiming my creativity would be like a reclamation of like the lineage, I guess my lineage of like being able to like say, hey, mom, like you didn't feel like you could be creative in your life, but like I can, or grandma, or great grandma, or great great grandma, you know, and I also feel like there's like a big responsibility because I, in the same ways that, like I'm the first person in my lineage, I guess, rather I'm the first woman in my lineage who has choice, like even my mom didn't get to choose who she wanted to marry, like she was in an arranged marriage and I get to choose to work. I like there's so much choice, you know, and I almost feel like there's a responsibility for me to be creative, because I have the choice to be creative, and that like I think, yeah, there was just like not time for my mom, like I'm like my mom's story is the one that I feel like closest to and so like I think about her life and I'm like there just was never time for her to be creative or to like make space for that for herself.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 24:59

you know, yeah, yeah. And there's almost this like weird thread of like an immigrant story to hear of like my parents always said like Well, we do all this because we want you to have a better life, and I almost wonder if there's like a subconscious like thread of like better life meaning like help resolve some of our wounding.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 25:34

And so like, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, go ahead, yeah, which again feels like a lot. You know like it feels like a lot to sit down and I don't know, like the other day, like I tried to like sit down and paint a leaf and I couldn't because I was like I was, like I'm trapped up in a leaf when it really should just be about like play, you know did you feel a blocked?

Sarah Cook: 26:11

if I can just ask, was the block happening like you would sit down and you couldn't bring yourself to begin the leaf, or did it sort of show up in the in the midst of like a game or what? I'm curious if I invited you to be really, really specific about when that block arrives.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 26:34

It's both like I have trouble like even just sitting down to like start the thing, like I kind of like feel like I have a lot of like I wouldn't call it like angst.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 26:46

Angst feels like too big of a word, but like there's like a lot of things that come up before I even like sit down to do a thing and then, as I'm painting it, it's like it doesn't look good enough, like I would never show this to anybody, like even though it's a perfectly fine like leaf. You know, and I feel like that's been sort of like going through a lot of my, the things that I consider to be like my creative processes, like my writing. The only place where it doesn't feel like it shows up is is when I'm with my clients, because that does feel like a creative process for me, and when I'm with horses, like like being able to like sort of like with horses in particular, like being able to like move my body in a way that feels like they understand and like that does feel like a strangely like. I feel like I'm kind of painting with my body and like dancing with my body. So, yeah, yeah, did that answer your question?

Sarah Cook: 28:07

It did. Yeah, and this is really interesting and I want to. I want to loop back to my first question and I want to ask it again, but in a slightly different way what is your creativity not responsible for?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 28:24

What is it not responsible for? That's a much harder question for me to ask. It's harder to answer. The feeling that I have in my body is like taking me back to like when I was younger, like teenage years, and like feeling like I was responsible for so much and that, like I can't even come up with a thing that my creativity is not responsible for, like it's so tied to who I am, you know, like a lot of the trauma wounds in my lineage. It's like it almost feels like if I can just unlock this one thing around creativity, then like something miraculous would happen and like I've, I know enough about this process to like, not push and force, which is why, like, I'm not sitting here being like, let me just like, override and do the thing, but it does feel like there's a lot that my creativity is responsible for.

Sarah Cook: 30:02

Yeah, yeah, when you were describing, a few minutes ago, this thing that you heard of, you know your, your mom, did things for you so you could have this better life, which I do want to reflect back, just the immense I mean I hear a certain amount of also like pressure or or like it makes so much sense to me why responsibility or obligation would sneak into that, even alongside, obviously, like the gift of that and the love and the real devotion in your mom making certain choices for you, and like it makes a lot of sense that there would be also this feeling of pressure. And it's interesting because the words you used you described it as you know this this you're in this space now where you get to have more choice, and so it's like you know you're being cheated. And a lot of the things that you're speaking to don't sound, in my hearing of them, as choice. They sound like obligation, it sounds like responsibility, it sounds like a kind of pressure, and so it feels like there's this opportunity to almost think about like how you're not about saying, well, I don't care about colonization, I don't care about like my responsibility to things, but it's about getting clear on how you relate to them so that it's it feels like choice. There's like more discernment there rather than this feeling of like obligation.

Sarah Cook: 31:43

It's so interesting to me that one of the first things you said to me when we started this conversation is you'd like to make personal touches on this. You're wanting to mend and you're feeling a block around making personal touches. And then talked about all of these external things and so there's sort of like I'm curious how to get back to. It's almost like you're being invited to get quieter with your creativity and outside of you there's a quality of them being like a noise that's making it harder for you to just like here or be with like what does it look like for you to just have your creativity for yourself? What does a personal putting a personal touch on something like? What does that, what does that look and feel like? Like zooming in on that? Yeah, I'm curious. What if this is bringing anything up for you?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 32:45

Yeah, it's bringing up this weird relationship that I have with the process of creativity and the result of creativity, like I was just talking about this with Andre the other day how, like when I knit something, for example- like.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 33:14

I'm drawn to like work with these colors that are like very gated and changing and like, like, just sort of like fun for my hands and my eyes to play with as I'm knitting a thing and a lot of the things that I want to knit, like with a process of knitting like I would never wear myself. And so I get kind of excited when, like when like I always knit a baby blanket for any of my friends who have kids, or, you know, my mom asks me to knit a scarf for her, I to this day have not knit something and kept it for myself, because the end result of the thing that I want on me or like in my house as like a blanket or something, is like really neutral and really simple and that's like not what I want to play with when I knit. And so, yeah, it's. It's bringing up this like concept of like, when I'm sort of like, like left my own devices and like left to like the process of the thing.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 34:50

It's like such a different thing than like what I actually like, want to walk around wearing or having in my house.

Sarah Cook: 35:00

Yeah, I want to ask a question and I I can't figure out how to ask this without it sounding more abrasive than I mean it to be. But I'm just curious, like, in what you're describing like what is the, what is the problem with that? Or like what is the concern about liking to make things and they tend to look a certain way, versus liking to surround yourself or wear things that look differently? Like is there an inherent, you know, conflict?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 35:35

in that. I guess the conflict is, then I feel obligated to keep the thing and it's not necessarily like a thing that brings me joy and like like I'm pretty minimalist, like like when my husband and I moved from like Nevada up to Washington, like we literally packed everything into a CRV, like everything that we own like fits into a CRV and and so to like have something around that like feels, I guess, frivolous for like lack of a better word that doesn't have any purpose other than it brought me joy to make it.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 36:32

It feels weird, but as I'm saying that out loud, like I'm recognizing the thing there.

Sarah Cook: 36:44

There's, well, there's. There's a funny thing that happens in my brain when I hear the word joy and frivolous like, sitting so close to each other, I mean the. I think the question that you just pointed out is like is joy frivolous, like? How do you, what is the relationship between like those two things? Because maybe part of me wants to say joy is totally frivolous and that's why it's so valuable, like I don't know. I mean I know, yeah, I'm curious, there's something obviously.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 37:10

Yeah, which I mean like that's not the relationship that I have with joy, like I do things that are frivolous and joyful all the time, you know, when it comes to food, when it comes to experiences, when it comes to relating with people. I mean, I guess the difference there, like I think this has something to do with like my relationship to like material things, because I feel very comfortable like being frivolous and joyful with things that don't like have like a like a material leftover thing. Yeah, you know it's like. Well then now what do I do with this like like ugly blanket that like I had so much joy making but like I don't want to keep you know? Hey, so it is present day cat popping in here for a little bit of mid episode commentary. So I think that these are fantastic questions that sir asked me and I want to invite you to either write these down to answer yourself in your own journal a little bit later, or even just taking a pause here. It's totally okay, I'll be right here taking a pause on this episode and doing a little bit of a journaling practice yourself around what is your creativity responsible for and what is your creativity not responsible for? So we're going to move on to the second session, but before I do that I want to give you a little bit of context.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 38:52

We spaced out our next call to be two weeks later because I wanted to make sure that I had plenty of time to process. Because here is the thing I don't know about you, but when I try to pursue creativity head on she's pretty quiet and yet, ironically, because my nervous system is wired as a fight response, that is my go to move. So for those two weeks I gave myself the permission to do things differently, to not force creativity with a fight response like I've done in the past. And I believe that everything is relational, which means that I am actively working through my anxious attachment style with everything in my life. And I find it really interesting that one of my takeaways from this first conversation that I had with Sarah illuminated that I no longer feel anxiously attached to other humans anymore. So, yay, let's celebrate that. But the entanglements and the energetics of the relational wounds still exist within me. So I started getting really curious about the anxious attachment threads that I have with creativity and, lo and behold, when I gave creativity the space to breathe, she started talking. I also want to share that. It's possible that I might have gotten to the state of curiosity on my own, but working with Sarah made my nervous system feel safe enough to not get bogged down in the muck of it.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 40:08

I experienced Sarah's two I'm going to call them coaching superpowers. The first is that she's able to stay in her own curiosity and follow these, my silly old threads of my thought process, which, honestly, sometimes feels really confusing and disconnected even to myself, and then she's able to reflect back to me the threads between these seemingly desperate concepts. The second is that she has a bit of a laser focused ability to insert a question that makes my brain short circuit for a second and then pause and chew on it to help me digest the things that feel really indigestible. If you're curious about Sarah's work, I signed up for her creative wayfinding package, which was the perfectly sized coaching package that I needed to kickstart me out of that creative pause that I was experiencing. She's got a really wonderful ecosystem of offerings, from her free creative resiliency writing circles to her longer months long coaching relationships, and you can learn more about what she shares at her website.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 41:06

Her website is Sarah Teresa cookcom. That is, sarah with anH, teresa without an H, so that reads S a R a H T E R E S a C O O Kcom. For the rest of the year, in 2023, she's offering a discount of $33 off of her wayfinding package for rooted business podcast listeners. That is the two session package that I signed up for. The coupon code is curiosity and again, you can find all that information on her website Sarah Teresa cookcom. But let's keep hanging out. With past cat. I had processed a lot, but I kind of surprised myself with the story that poured out of me in this second session.

Sarah Cook: 41:51

Beautiful. Well, um, I have heard little bits and pieces from you not too much, so I'm I'm really excited to just hear in a little bit more depth how the writing and the making and the thinking and the dialoguing has been going the past couple of weeks, and want to see if you feel intuitively, you know like where you'd like to start or what you'd like to share first, yeah, um, I think the first piece is that I feel a lot more flow around my creativity, and there are two things in particular that I feel like were really helpful.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 42:38

Um, the first is on our call.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 42:41

I think I was like making the fact that I am attracted to sort of like minimalism like wrong, and I can't remember exactly what you said, but it was something along the lines of like what, if you just like the things that you like, and that's okay.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 42:57

Such a silly thing, you know. And it was weird because it's like I went down this like weird rabbit hole of like okay, like I'm gonna adorn all of my like clothes that are like plain and like create these like embroidery pieces and um, and I was like feeling all this resistance to like starting any of that. And as soon as you said that, I was like oh yeah, like I don't need to, I don't want to. You know what I mean Um, which is like such a I mean I say that now with like laughing and like sort of like this weird tone of like a duh, but also it felt significant to like hear that Um, so that felt like that was like one piece, that sort of like clicked into place of like like you get to like what you like, which is totally true and fair, yeah.

Sarah Cook: 44:00

Um yeah. And I want to just briefly acknowledge like the labor and the work that went into you getting to a place where you now get to say duh, Like, like we do a lot to get to those places where the thing feels obvious or immediate or like, oh, why didn't I just like do this or know this right away? And it's like no, let's pause for a minute and be like wow, look at what you did to like duh, Like, that's like a great place to end up.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 44:31

Yeah, which I really think is like like one of those like unspoken values of working with a culture or mentor is like just they get to mirror back to you the the like beliefs that you just like, like for some reason you just hold to be true without questioning.

Sarah Cook: 44:54

Like.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 44:54

I had made this like the way that I want to design like wrong because it was somehow linked to, you know, colonialism and so, therefore, if I need to like extract myself from colonialism, then like this is the way to do it and then like having all that resistance, it was like it was all sort of like tied together. Yeah, weird little knot. So, yeah, I just want to like say that that feels important to name, just in terms of like a coaching, sort of mentorship, type of a relationship is like sometimes, just like the simplest thing is like the exact thing that I needed to hear.

Sarah Cook: 45:39

Yeah, and I think that's part of why I was feeling really called to ask you about responsibility and I know you mentioned that that was feeling like a really tricky thing to answer and you were having a lot of blanks. But what I'm hearing is also sounds to me like an embodied integration of that. I mean, it does sound like there was a little bit of a releasing that was able to happen in terms of, like making what you like have to be responsible in some way or have to like earn you know, yeah, totally Like.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 46:21

And on that front I feel like it's tied to this question that like I sat with and just like I like there's I can't think of like an English word, like like ruminated on, I guess, is like the closest thing I can think of is like like I kept like I kept going back to that question of like what is my creativity not responsible for and for I don't know?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 46:54

A week and a half for the majority of the time that page was just completely blank. And it was another one of these like dull moments, because I kept being like well, my creativity is responsible for this and that and this and that, and like even simple things like cooking and cleaning and creating systems, and like like there's so much that my creativity touches and I was trying to find something that my creativity didn't touch and couldn't find that thing. And then again, sort of like I heard it in my head as your voice, as like can that just be okay, you know? And so that page is still blank, and I still want it to be blank because it's acknowledging that my creativity holds a lot of responsibility and it's okay that it holds that responsibility you know, and it doesn't feel heavy that it holds that responsibility.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 48:04

Yeah, it just feels like an interweaving of like of its role in my life.

Sarah Cook: 48:16

Yeah well, and speaking of languages, it almost makes me wonder if there's a word in another language other than the word responsible that is like that is. That is part of what you're talking about. I really appreciate the way you describe it in this like evocative way of well, your, my creativity touches everything. There's something that feels more intimate than the word responsibility indicates. There's something really rich and lovely there about what you're describing. And what you're describing I don't hear obligation.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 48:54

I hear something that feels more alive than that I think the word in Korean would be chagim, which is like it's responsibility, like. If you looked it up in the dictionary it would probably be responsibility, but there's also like a sense of accountability, there's a sense of like nurturing, there's a sense of like like, like taking care, like. Oftentimes, when we use that word, it's like used in the context of like an elder taking care of someone younger, which then brings in this relationship with creativity, where creativity feels like an elder that's taking care of me, which I don't know why that brings up to yours, but it does. Yeah, it's almost like, like you don't have to come chasing after me, like I'll be here, kind of a relationship, if that makes sense.

Sarah Cook: 50:13

Dependability, yeah, and it makes me want to like revise the question to say what does your creativity steward?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 50:25

I mean what I?

Sarah Cook: 50:26

hear you saying is well everything.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 50:30

Yeah, which feels really true, like I really did sit with that prompt like almost every morning.

Sarah Cook: 50:38

Beautiful.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 50:41

And, just like every morning, I came up with a blank, which I feel like it was meant to. You know, it's like it's a hard question because, like any answer that I would have put down would have felt like I wasn't acknowledging creativity in the ways that it wanted to be acknowledged, like I was, like I wasn't giving it credit for all the pieces that it touches in my life, I guess.

Sarah Cook: 51:19

Yeah, that makes so much sense, kat, and I love what the blank page gave you, because I also feel like what I'm hearing is a clarity that you got to by showing up again and again to it and engaging with that blank page and I feel like what you're pointing at is like one of the most powerful facets of our creativity, which is that it lives in like the process, in almost like the ritual of it.

Sarah Cook: 51:49

It's not about you don't have like a product that you wrote that you're like. Here's the thing I discovered. It's like it happened in that space of like. It feels a little bit like ritual and devotion too right, the devotion of just like showing up again and again and realizing, oh, I'm actually, in a way, not looking at a blank page, or it's blank, but it's like not empty. Maybe you can see the difference there.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 52:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And so I guess since the last time we chatted I will say that like bye, like by allowing my creativity to take chicken like it has so last night I've had like a little bit of just like anxiety and stress, because since this last weekend, because the piece of land that we would love to purchase that we have to wait until October, because my husband's probation period for his work is going to end in October, so then that opens up more loan options and all that, all the boring 3D details. But essentially we've had our eye on this property for a year, almost a year, and I've been having conversations with my grandfather, who's no longer here. I didn't get to have a very long relationship when he was alive. He only came into our lives when I was in high school. My complicated family history, but like, essentially, like he was estranged from my mother for a long time and all that. But the moment I met him I was like, oh, you're mine, like, like you know, like when you meet people and you're like you're my people, that was my grandfather and he.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 54:13

I'm thinking I've only had, I want to say in total of like in person time with him.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 54:25

I've probably had a five or six weeks spread out over you know, several years, but he lived in Korea.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 54:37

So he came to visit us in the States twice and he stayed for I think a week and a half or two weeks for each of those visits. And then I went to Korea and I was like I would have been in like my mid 20s, and so we got to spend I think three weeks or four weeks together and, like as soon as we left, he went into the hospital with a brain clot. Actually noticed it in the airport while he was dropping us off and I told my uncle like he needs to go to the hospital right now. Like he's learning his words, he's not, he's having trouble tracking time and I thought he was having a stroke and my uncle was like, oh no, it's just because he's so like sad about you guys leaving us. Like no, no, like he needs to go to the hospital. So he took him to the hospital and then he just he passed away and like he I feel like I'm telling this story because it gives context to like what my relationship to him- is.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 56:04

But he died, I think not that long after he was admitted to the hospital. But at the time I was studying for my board exams, for my acupuncture license, and my parents didn't want to stress me out, and so I would be checking in with them and they would say like, oh, he's okay, he's okay, he's okay, he just needs more tests. He thinks more. You know, whatever it is. And one night I had a dream with him in it and in the dream he was waiting at a bus stop and I was talking to him and he was like it's my turn to get on, like the next bus is mine. And as soon as he got in the bus, like the bus exploded into like yellow butterflies. It like took over the entire inside of the bus.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 57:09

And months later my parents told me that he had passed away and I had written about this dream in my journal and I asked them was it on this date? And my mom was like, how do you know? And I was like, because he came and he told me that he was leaving. And so I, whenever I see a yellow butterfly, I think of him and I go walking in these woods twice a day and I don't know what it is about Spokane. But there are these. I look them up, their tiger swallow tails, they're fucking all over the place. They're like these black and yellow butterflies, and so I've been having conversations with him like ever since I landed here, because I have so many opportunities to remember him, because he's just like he's literally everywhere here and I keep thinking that like the butterfly season is going to like wane off and I don't know what it is.

Sarah Cook: 58:24

They're just going to be in butterfly land.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 58:25

This is my first year here, so it's like I don't know how long the season lasts, and it's interesting. I hadn't put this together, but he always felt like he needed to give me something, and so, like one of the things that caused a little bit of discomfort in our relationship is like he always felt like he wanted to like gift me something, and so like. When I went to Korea, he was like I want to buy you a hanbok, which is like a traditional Korean dress, and I was like I'm going to wear a hanbok.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 59:10

I appreciate the gesture, but like I'm never going to wear that and he was always like well, you know, I don't know how he was always joking about how long he was going to live, which it's kind of morbid now, but like he's like.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 59:25

I don't know how I'm going to live, and so I want you to have something that you're going to remember me by. And so we went to like an antique market and he bought me these like big wooden windows, like like I don't know I'll send you a picture someday but like they were taken off of like an old, traditional Korean house and they would have normally like paper, but it's in this like really beautiful, intricate design. It was just like how old houses were built back then, and so I don't have them here, but they've been like decorating my walls ever since I got them, and so I feel like he's always got like a window into being able to see where, what, how I'm doing and what I'm doing. And so I've been walking and having these conversations with my grandfather and he talks to me like I don't know how else to explain it, but like I hear him and like we we're talking to him about land and how I want to live here, and he he uses the word chagy him In that like, like, like, almost, with a sense of like I've got you, like it's going to be okay.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:01:12

And so this property it's weird because it's been up for a year, like it's one of the first properties that we saw when we first landed here and we're like, oh for sure this spot is is going to be gone.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:01:28

You know, it's 10 acres, it's got a horse barn on it, it doesn't have a house and so we'd have to build our own house.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:01:40

Anyways, I've been feeling a little bit panicked because the price dropped on it over the weekend Whereas it's been kind of high, and so, like I've been being like, you know, even if it's at that price, like in October, come October, like I'm happy to pay that price, even if it's like over what market asking is. And now it's kind of like at market value, and which freaks me out a little bit because it's like there's still three months until, you know, we get it, we get to even put an offer on it. And my grandpa just keeps talking to me and he says, like taking Joe, which is like give me that responsibility and I don't know if we'll get this land. Like to me, like if we don't get the land to have enough, like trust that my ego wants to say, like it's not gonna be okay if we don't get that land, but like my trust in my grandpa says, like it's, because there's something better that's better for us, and so this is all gonna loop back to creativity in a second.

Sarah Cook: 1:03:15

I'm hearing it.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:03:19

So in my panic, I'm like I want to do something, like I want to like my fight response goes on. So then it's like, okay, what can I do? And it's like in this situation, like I literally cannot do anything, like I can't make time go faster. We've got enough money in the bank. We're continuing to add money into the bank. I'm doing like I'm doing all the things, like I'm paying off my credit card, like all the things that you do to like get ready to purchase something like this, like we're already doing all the things and being responsible about it. And so I have this skirt that I, or the weekend I sat up, I was twisted around and I sat up against a pine tree, and now there's like a streak of resin that like it won't come out, like I've tried to, and it just like it's just like in it, really yeah, and and it just looks like a piece of poo.

Sarah Cook: 1:04:31

I wondered if that was what?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:04:35

Yeah, and so yesterday I'm looking at this skirt.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:04:39

I love this skirt and I don't want to throw it away, and I decided to embroider like a yellow, like swallowtail butterfly on it and, yeah, it was like that feels like a thing I can do, like for my, my nervous system that wants to just like fucking fight Like. This seems like what I can do in a way that feels okay and like it's interesting because I've been having these conversations with Andre. We're about to do a website redesign Not had a website in probably three years and we're like looking at you know, other coaches, websites and being like okay, so can we draw inspiration from like on a visual level, like the copy I can write, but he needs more direction when it comes to like the visuals of it. And you know, I sort of I've been mentioning I want to bring more of myself into my work. I think that there's that's why I'm feeling called to do more like solo podcast episodes I guess, share some more of my story, like sort of be seen a little bit more.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:06:13

And my cream this is like a big part of I guess myself that I not that I've like actively tried to like get rid of it or like homogenize myself, but it's definitely been a journey my whole life of like just fit in, like just figure out what other people look like and you won't ever look exactly like that, but just like sort of fit in. And I'm looking at all these other coaches websites and I'm like it's all the same stuff, like, like it looks all the same. There's the like white background with some pictures of them laughing with like the cursive script and like like it's like the I don't know like the minimalist coffee version of coaching websites.

Sarah Cook: 1:07:10

Yeah, yeah, I know, yep.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:07:18

And I'm like, whatever it looks like it's going to be not that. And if there's a way that we can sort of bring in like Korean design elements and so that's like what Andre and I are sort of like researching is like aspects of Korean design that also like incorporates nature in some way and sort of like weaving those pieces through, but yeah, I feel like that all was kind of getting jammed up at the point where I reached out to you, where I was like I don't know why I can't fucking embroider something.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:08:08

So, yeah, I'll just, I'll just pause and stop there, I guess.

Sarah Cook: 1:08:13

No, this one it's, and it's funny and part of why I laughed a little when you said I promise this is coming back to creativity. I was sort of hearing it all along because before you even started sharing this amazing story you had been kind of brought to tears a little bit, describing this stewardship and this sense of like I've got you that you were feeling between you and your creativity, and then you proceeded to tell this amazing story where that quality was echoed in the relationship between you and your grandpa. So it's like, oh it all, it's all connected and your creativity.

Sarah Cook: 1:08:58

you know, having this like stewardship element and the way that it's like weaving in all of these different things that you're doing, it just it makes so much sense that it's all really connected. Yeah.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:09:15

I wasn't. I didn't intend to come in talking about my grandpa today, but yeah, it all makes sense.

Sarah Cook: 1:09:23

Yeah, and I'm thinking even. I mean God, you're talking about yellow swallowtail butterflies and window frames. I mean the metaphorical possibility in these things and this idea of like having a window into something, this idea of transformation, of going through a cocoon phase. I mean there's so much beautiful like metaphorical possibility where it feels like you know you could be invited to think about how these things are showing up in your creativity, whether it's in writing or like embroidery or elements on your website. You know thinking about website or the stories that you're wanting to share about yourself as these, like you know, thinking about it like one window frame at a time. There's just it feels so lush hearing you describe all of these things. Yeah, really, it's not for you.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:10:22

Yeah, I mean I have thought about the window as being a bit of a metaphor, but never really like fully. Let myself like write about it like it's one of those things where I don't know if you have things like this in your life, but it almost feels so sacred it's like almost indescribable. Like I feel that way when I talk about the Dallas sometimes, where like I was just having a conversation with my husband where he was like asking me questions about the down and I'm like I'm trying to describe a thing that is completely indescribable, like I don't know how to put this in a words fully. And I feel that way Sometimes when I think about my relationship with my grandfather.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:11:13

It's like like I knew the guy for like five or six weeks you know, and it's like it's one of those things that feels like like it would almost like tarnish the relationship to like really try to describe it, because I feel like I have a more of a relationship with him now than when he was alive and he's often in my dreams and you know it's. It's interesting because, like my mom, like there's aspects of like my remembering from childhood and stuff where, like, I feel like I knew things before they were like 3D reality and there was a lot about that where my mom specifically would like be, like, oh, like last year, imagination or like sort of like override these intuitive knowings, and but with this it's like she asks me about grandpa, like she's like is he happy?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:12:30

Like is he warm, is he hungry, you know, and yeah, it's yeah, there, there, there. There does seem to be this idea of stewardship that feels really resonant with creativity, that feels really resonant with my relationship with my grandpa. It also feels really resonant as I'm thinking about land. Is like the land that we're purchasing is going to be our forever home, like that's our intention is for like this is where we will live and die, and with that comes I feel like a very, very strong intention of stewardship of that land.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:13:19

The last time I went and walked to this particular property was in the late spring and I didn't realize how much biodiversity there was on it, because we've gone in the autumn, we've gone in the winter is so like like not really realizing how much biodiversity there is on that land, and like us talking through like, oh, this actually changes how we want to develop it. You know, like we want to leave most of it wild and leave most of it untouched, and like have this little parcel of like maybe three acres that we're going to homestead on, and so there's like a level of stewardship and responsibility that I feel like is kind of weaving its way through a lot of different elements in my life, and part of that is as the receiver of that stewardship and also as the giver of that stewardship and sort of like playing those roles back and forth.

Sarah Cook: 1:14:25

Yeah, totally, and thinking too about the way I mean I see that same reciprocalness with your creativity. Like you talking about being a kind of steward of your creativity, but I'm also kind of curious about how your creativity is also a steward of you. Or you know this space or this energy, you know whatever metaphor sort of resonates with you the most, but this thing that you can turn to that also has your back. You know that you're, that you're feeling that in in both directions.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:15:05

Yeah, so to me, as you're saying that, that feels like partnership. You know, like and maybe that's that's the case in all the little pieces of stewardship that we've been talking about Like, I feel like there's more of a care taking energy that I receive from my grandfather, but, like, like the way you just described, that feels really similar to how I'm in relationship with my husband. You know, there's this like giving you, receiving this reciprocity, and thinking about land too. I feel like that is also there in resident as well. Yeah, but that's really just what it's all about, right is? It's like how can we take care of each other?

Sarah Cook: 1:16:04

Mm, hmm, yeah, and the way you were describing your relationship with the land and this sort of realization you guys had about oh, there's more biodiversity here, we'd like to protect that, we'd like to adjust our, our expectations accordingly it you're really describing stewardship as being in direct communication with the thing, and I'm feeling really called because of you wanting to share more of your story and your Koreanness being such an important part of that, like I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about this idea of like, fluency, or even just kind of existing moving back and forth between languages, and I don't know. There's something here. I'm just sort of curious if this brings anything up, this idea of create your creativity being a space where things are also being communicated. But like, what is the role that fluency or that like other link another language might play in all of that?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:17:17

Yeah, yeah, and I mean it's, it's something that I've thought about, because there's, like I'm sure that there's English words that like don't exist in other languages. But there's, like working with the each thing, like there's there's words that just don't exist in English, you know, and like, when I'm reading the each thing, like I don't even fully grasp the, the fullness of of what I'm reading, because I'm not fluent in Chinese, you know. And then there's words like taking, which I I struggle to find a synonym for it in English. So maybe there is some form of I don't know bringing in that language and it to me, it it just feels like, oh, we're talking about red, but like here's like a slightly different shade of red, you know, like you guys know what red looks like, like we all know what red looks like, and like have you seen this red? You know?

Sarah Cook: 1:18:42

Yeah, what?

Sarah Cook: 1:18:44

What it's bringing to mind is this idea to that like fluency can exist outside of language to, which is also kind of making me think about what you had said a little bit ago about how there are certain things that feel too sacred to write about.

Sarah Cook: 1:19:03

Like how do you cat, like that language, at the end of the day, is always smaller than the thing that it's pointing at right? I mean, truly, it's like the most we can try to do is like point as accurately and closely as we can at the thing. But, like you know, when I say I love you to my partner, it's like those three words don't really account for like the thing that is being conveyed when I say that. So it's, you know, it's sort of like the perpetual failure of language, and I also think it's something that, because you're a writer and I sort of vision for you I have this vision for you of like continuing to experiment with like more forms of writing. You know it can be a really fun thing to play with too. Like I'm just thinking about what would it look like for you to kind of play around with writing poetry that exists in more than just English and that is really, you know like leaning into the sort of like failure of language in a really like playful way you know yeah.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:20:11

Maybe doesn't that like always the like I don't know quest of the artist, regardless of like, what medium they're in, is, it's always this way to like, try to describe something that feels indescribable, and it's like the closer that we get to that like it hits some sort of resonance, I think. But that's why, like, when you write about grief, like like to me, like you're, you're so close to like what grief feels like and also so far away, and it's always in that pursuit of like, trying to better describe these things that are indescribable, that feels like an important pursuit, if that makes sense.

Sarah Cook: 1:21:01

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, and I think it's also why and I see you as being on this beautiful journey of this like it's why I think it's so important that we have a really tender relationship with our creativity. That is first and foremost for ourself. So much of the magic exists in, in that thing of showing up to the blank page again and again and again, in the thing that you can't ever just show to someone else, right, and so it's like impossible to publish the best parts of our creativity, right, because they like happen in the in between space. Yeah, totally.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:21:41

I don't think that's.

Sarah Cook: 1:21:45

Can I ask you a question? Yeah, of course, but I'm curious. So, with all of these new you know, new questions, new revelations, things that you're playing with, I'm curious what you're most excited about or excited for when you think about your creativity, and this can be in any medium.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:22:08

Yeah, um. Yeah, it's interesting because I feel like that answer would have almost always been writing had you asked me any other point of my life. I'm kind of stoked on this little butterfly that I'm embroidering. It feels really playful and it just feels like something special that I can sort of look like when I wear it. I can sort of think back to this moment in time and it feels like it kind of encapsulates this relationship that I have with my grandpa, the anxiety that I'm feeling right now, being okay with that anxiety and all that.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:23:13

I also think that exploring creativity as being a relational thing feels really important in the rest of it.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:23:23

So like I think I'm really creative when it comes to how I work with horses, like there's something that feels like I get to create something that was never there before, which is this relational landscape between, like right now I've got Whitty and I feel like we're actively creating something together, because I've never had a relationship with a horse like her and she's never had a relationship with a human. So like that feels like really resonant. And then something that I'm really anxious, in a good way, to have a relationship with this land is like that feels like, you know I've got the business, I've got the coaching practice, I've got all these different ways to express, but like I feel almost like all of that is preparing me in some way to be in a relationship with land and that feels a bit like my magnum opus that I will be working on for the rest of my life. I'm just kind of like ready for it to be here already, like impatient of it.

Sarah Cook: 1:24:46

So yeah, yeah, this might be a hard question, but I'm curious, given that you have these couple of months ahead of you where you're sort of you know, swimming through that anxiousness Is there. Is there like a role for your creativity to play in helping you get through these months, or in sort of channeling some of that energy toward a thing?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:25:21

I don't know, that's a question I can answer in this moment, but I think it's a question that I want to continue asking Because, again, if we go back to that concept of it being relational and who's caretaking, you know oftentimes like one of the reasons why I love my relationship with my husband is because we're really good about switching roles when it comes to like, who's receiving that check-in and who's giving that check-in, and I think I tend to take over responsibility, and so maybe there's an aspect of the next couple of months where I could be the one who is taken care of by creativity. Yeah, that feels accurate to say that and that feels good to say that.

Sarah Cook: 1:26:30

Yeah, you felt something shift or or noticeable in your body. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are there other relationships or other areas in your life? I mean, I think you've already probably named at least a few of them, but like other relationships besides you and your husband where you really notice that like reciprocal nature?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:27:13

Yeah, I think the other relationship is, you know, with my two best friends. You know, like Andre and Cheech, like they, like we're also pretty good at playing that dance, you know. So yeah they're really good models for that.

Sarah Cook: 1:27:35

Do you feel that with Winnie too? Do you feel a kind of like reciprocal?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:27:45

Yes and no. I see her trying like, I see her wanting to and I think that she'll get there, but I don't know that she's safe enough and confident enough yet. Like I feel like I need to sort of be in the caretaking role for now. The trying that I see from her is like she like when I groom her, she grooms me back. She like nibbles on my arm and nibbles in my hair and stuff, and so like I see her as being like such a sensitive creature. But there's just a lot of stuff in the way. There's a lot of noise in the way right now and I see her actively trying to work through that, and so I don't know that I could show up in an energetically, sort of like nervous state and expect any form of contact from her. In fact, I know that when I've gone there in a bit of like a frazzled, nervous energy, she just stays away. So yeah, yeah, totally.

Sarah Cook: 1:29:05

And is she the one who, maybe a month or so ago, in one of your newsletters, you shared a really beautiful picture with? Was that her? Yeah?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:29:15

And then a mini horse. She's really cute, she's really cute.

Sarah Cook: 1:29:24

Well, gosh, this is. I'm so excited for you. It just feels like you're in this yeah, the word that keeps coming to mind is lush Like you're just in this really lush, rich space where land and your creativity and this idea of relationship, it's all. It's all communicating. You know everything's communicating with everything else and that that seems like a really cool place for you to be and like there's a lot of creative potential there.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:29:53

Yeah, it's definitely a fun place. Definitely way more fun than I was in when I reached out to you.

Sarah Cook: 1:30:01

That's amazing, that's huge. Yeah, and again, just miss all that you've done to get here. You know to be, to be in this moment where you can say about things. Do you have any other questions for me, or?

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:30:24

others, it feels good. I just want to say thank you.

Sarah Cook: 1:30:30

Yeah, absolutely, because, yeah, it's been a real honor to learn a little bit more about your creativity and also hold space for you and, yeah, something I would be excited to do again in a heartbeat. So, yeah, that was open.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:30:46

Sweet Well. Thank you so much and I appreciate you.

Sarah Cook: 1:30:52

And I appreciate you too Well, and we'll be in touch really soon, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, for sure, all right.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:31:03

So I had those sessions with Sarah in June and July of 2023. And I want to give you a bit of an update on where creativity is taking my business as I'm recording this in late August of 2023. And also what I'm continuing to digest Now. There's going to be a lot of changes moving through this space. I had sort of hinted at that at the beginning of this episode and that's all coming up in the next few months. The changes that y'all are seeing on the outside is just an outward expression of the internal work that my business has called me into. At the end of 2022, I hit an income contraction, which was my business asking me into relationship with commitment. I chatted about that in episode 111 if you're curious and you can go back and listen to that and this creativity pause that I am sharing on this episode happened in the summer of 2023. And the combination of those two contraction points was the slowness and the intentional yin energy that I needed to root into commitment and creativity with my business. The first big change that I'm making is that I'm changing the name of my business from empowered curiosity to Kat Fosuli mentorship. I realized that I named my business something impersonal because I was still growing into it when I first started in 2020, I wasn't even sure what to call my work. So keeping it empowered curiosity and keeping it a little bit generic. It gave me the time and space to lean into how I identify. Mentor feels like the most aligned sort of label or identity that I want to take on, because it invites my clients into a self led journey with me providing guidance, structure and regulation. Another reason that I kept the name empowered curiosity for so long is because when I sold my acupuncture practice back in 2017, it was so hard to sell because it was called Kathleenly acupuncture. I'm realizing through this conversation with my business about commitment that this business wants to be expressed through me. If I were to decide one day that I no longer wanted to run this business this whole concept around business being a spiritual practice about aligning with nature's rhythms in entrepreneurship it could not be sold because it has my personal touches woven through every aspect of it. So it feels really significant to name that I am amplifying my Korean name in this new naming of my business.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:33:39

There's a lot of pain in the compartmentalization and misrepresentation of the Asian American experience and my Korean name has been the brunt of jokes growing up in a mostly white community, and it's also kind of been looked at funnily by the Korean community. My name Hoseu translates to Lake and it's not a typical name. It's a bit of a you know, if we were to like sort of relate it to American names, it's a bit of like a hippie name. So my Korean name has not been a comfortable one in either of the cultural spaces that I've embodied and a lot of the work that I've done this year around my ancestry and my culture has illuminated ways in which I've participated in the activation and the participation of the erasure wound of the Asian American story. Instead of feeling like a victim of this and shaking my fist indignantly at the system, I've decided to just share who I am from the get go, leading with both sides of who I am my American-ness and my Korean-ness, with equal representation.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:34:44

So a concept that I'm actively digesting right now, that I think I'm going to continue to digest, is this act of inviting creativity into my business as a decolonizing ritual. Now, this is why slowing down to embrace the contractions in business is such an important part of our work here, because after the two big contractions of commitment and creativity that I experienced in the last year. I'm seeing how now this work wants to expand, namely my program. Business alchemist mentorship feels like a plant that I've started from seed. I've given it the ideal conditions to grow nice and strong indoors, and now it's stretching towards the sun, telling me that it's ready to be planted outside and bear fruit. So I'm listening.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:35:32

Bam is going to shift a lot next year. This message of aligning with nature cycles to cultivate a business that feels ethically aligned while also nourishing you as a spiritual entrepreneur. It feels really honed and it feels really strong and it feels ready to share with a bigger audience and I'm not quite sure exactly how, but I trust that my business and I will be equal partners in this process. I'm sharing all this with you because I believe that by sharing with transparency, you'll see that I, too, don't have it all figured out, and that is the beauty of this entrepreneurial journey we never arrive, we're always learning, we're always growing. I'm also sharing because I'll be running BAM one last time in this particular iteration this fall. So if you're listening to this before the fall of 2023 and you've been thinking about joining BAM as it stands currently, this is your nudge, meaning you'll have access to one-on-one sessions with me. You'll have access to intimate group calls of less than eight people. You'll get access to bonus workshops and guest teachers and a video library that currently has over 50 hours of content in it. If you're craving intimacy on your journey as a spiritual entrepreneur, I want to extend this invitation to you, because next year, bam is evolving and I'm not quite sure what it's wanting to evolve into. Registration for BAM is done through application and you can learn more about the program at businessocomismentorshipcom.

Kat HoSoo Lee: 1:37:03

Okay, that was a really long episode. That's all I've got. Thank you so much for being here and for being part of this community. As always, the ways to connect with me are through Instagram, my newsletter, this podcast, and if you find resonance and connection in those spaces, there's a spot for you in business ocomismentorship. And oh, before I forget, I talked a lot about visual art in this episode. I talked about my mom's art, the windows that my grandpa gifted me, my embroidery, winnie, my amazing little mini horse. So I'll share photos of all that on my Instagram page if you're curious, and it all relates back to this episode. Thanks again, and we'll chat soon.